New system aimed primarily at matching newer sellers with buyers
So now it seems I have to wait two hours before I can bid for a job. This is extremely unfair. Not only do experienced creatives/designers have to compete with an unfair playing field, ie people offered to do a job for £10 when it is clearly worth £100, we are now not allowed to bid for jobs as soon as they appear on PPH. What kind of system is this?!
Awful. Unfair. Unprofessional. Discriminatory.
Regards
C. Howe
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@Deb, I only forgot about Chrome because I don't currently use it. :) Maybe that's about to change. Haven't had any problems with Firefox yet. Works fine for me.
Roll on next week when I can start working through Maven, I will miss our little chats tho :)
Is Maven going to be a freelancing site without a customer forum? If so, that would be a shame.
@Paul, I take it this site works fine in Chrome then, does it?
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@Malcolm - Hi and thanks. Indeed, I was getting my wires crossed between approved applications and trusted sellers! When the re-application process was rolled out, I took the trusted seller approval to be a way of PPH removing "dead wood" - not that I'm dead or even wooden!
However, my main concern is still true. We used to be able to send proposals for jobs which required "skills" that weren't listed on our profile which was good for those of us who have more than 10 skills to our name. Now PPH seem to have removed this functionality making it only possible to apply for jobs which are covered by our 10 skill areas! The only workaround - to add and remove skills but I fear that such actions will be viewed dimly by the people "upstairs" - not to mention, adding a skill takes a few hours to be processed and/ or recognised in the "proposal system".
Oh... I use Chrome and all seems to work fine!
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I use PPH via Chrome because I could never attach any documents to the workstream using IE. I'd say it's working about 90% on Chrome. Lots of the pop ups etc are going off the edge of the screen and there's sometimes a delay in messages coming through (I get an email showing the messaqe but the workstream doesn't update for a while). But I haven't noticed anything other than that. I'm backing Maven all the way. Following them on Facebook and really looking forward to their launch. I'm assuming that we may still have to source some work through PPH initially until Maven builds up. Is that what you will be doing @Deb?
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@ Malcolm. yes Maven will have forums etc so no doubt we can chat there too :)
@Rebecca, yeah I will be working between the 2 until Maven is established. i wish them all the luck in the world I really do as we really need an alternative. Just when you think this place can't get any worse they reach an even lower level of stupidity :( and when they start pissing off the buyers as well you know it has cocked up big style.
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Right, well, just installed Chrome (out of curiosity), and can now confirm that apart from anything else that I have not been made aware of via this forum, that the same problems do exist with the site, which destroys my theory (as odd as it might of sounded, and don't ask!), that I thought they had deliberately done this, to try and get people to use the Chrome browser instead. (so there's your answer @Paul)
I personally still find it hard to believe that they haven't at least sorted out the fact that things are off the page, it just smacks to me of a serious lack of professionalism.
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@Deb, LOL, really sorry about that, totally forgot what you put, but just scrolled further up and I've seen your comments and do remember your post. I read everything, believe me. Will try to make sure it doesn't happen again ;) (insert sound of wrist being slapped here)
Just been on the facebook site, and there are a few comments people have put, mostly negative, about the new design and whatnot.
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Advice for freelancers on the PPH FB site:
FREELANCE TIP: Having outsiders around you, especially smart ones, is great. It gives you fresh perspective. It helps you take a step back and see things in a new light
It's a pity Xenios didn't take that advice himself and spend some time here.
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I am new to PPH, tried a number of times to send a proposal but always my skills didn't seem to add up.
As a freelancer with more than 20 years of experience this felt so absurd that the first time it happened I couldn't believe, the second gave PPH a couple of weeks to think it over and now I'm ready to leave.
But before I do, and because otherwise this site is indeed very well organized, I will apologetically try to explain to the owners the meaning of the term "Freelance".
And the obvious operative word is, of course, "Freedom", which can be "freely" translated as the opportunity to make a mistake, to learn from it and to carry on until the next one.
I would not be a freelancer for long if unable to learn from my mistakes, and I would not be a good freelancer if committed none.
So my suggestions are to simply abolish this stupid rule or, if not, to change the site's name to "Skills Per Hour", thus avoiding the misunderstanding.
As it stands the most probable outcome is that you will be able to keep all the Hours, but none of the People, at least the kind that counts for quality and expertise.
Thank you anyway for another mistake. Lesson learned!
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Joao, as far as PPH is concerned you're not a freelancer, you're a seller. All that matters is the sales transaction - is it delivered on time, is the buyer happy. The product can be the biggest piece of crap in the world as far as PPH is concerned, Quality and experience and skill don't come into it. They rate people that can market their products well and deliver them cheap and on time. Basically, all they are interested in is money.
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"You can't send a Proposal to a job that's not relevant to your skills. Browse other jobs"
Then when I do browse other jobs I get "Spanish translation" and "need male interview" jobs. I neither speak Spanish and I am not male.
However, I've designed logo marks for two Fortune 500 companies, I've worked at Leo Burnett, O&M and Digitas LBI but when I bid on logo or advertising jobs I'm "not qualified". I've written to the help desk but have yet to hear. I think that they aren't allowing me to bid on jobs that are a certain price point, however, I refuse sell my services for $10 an hour. That's insane, I have far too much experience to sell myself that short (especially when I know I can do basic production work for $20 an hour).
I cannot find a good freelance site that works, something like ImageBrief for photographers. Real jobs at real price points for real professionals. Anyone know of anything like this for accomplished designers?
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@ Molly, we are all suffering the same problems now. I have worked for all the top travel agents but am blocked for applying for travel jobs yet am being selected to apply for onsite jewellery design in Berlin :( A few freelancers off here are so sick of it they have created a brand new site called maven freelancing which launches on 1st October with the aim being that the freelancers can get top quality jobs and eliminate all this crap. A lot of us are signing up for it and over 4000 people have visited the site so far so there is definitely a huge interest.
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Ahhhh! Thanks! I just can't deal with these sites. Create an entire identity system with website for $50? Um... no thanks. I didn't pay for my MFA to work for pennies an hour. Maven, October 1st. See you all there!
ps. Do you know what the URL for Maven will be? Do they have a placeholder page up? Just so I can bookmark it now.
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Geoff, I was thinking the same, although I was reluctant to say so because I feel the people behind it have very good intentions. What they lack is a feel for the scale you need to make a market place work, and the skills and resources to build their own. A freelance market place site is a web app and its USP largely lies in what functionality it has that others lack - so it needs in house developers, which Maven do not have, and which doubt they can afford.
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@ Geoff,
All I know is they hired a developer to create the site for them. None of what you said means a lot to me tbh as I'm a writer lol but as they are PPH'ers and in light of all the problems on here at the minute I have to presume they won't have had a wad of cash lying around to pay a top notch developer such as yourself. Everyone starts somewhere I suppose, this site was horrendous at the beginning. Even if its not perfect it's worth a shot just to be rid of all this crap :)
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As far as I'm concerned the fact there is no commission involved and am not going to get up in the morning to 42 emails offering me onsite jobs in Berlin makes it already better than PPH :) We are obviously going to look at this from different viewpoints as we are skilled in different areas.
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I completely agree with you Geoff, and I've got a mind to start up a freelancing site as well. I'm very, very new to this process. I had people calling me for freelance in Chicago, I usually ended up in perma-lance positions because people wanted to retain me but my boyfriend moved to Madrid and since I don't speak Spanish I can't work here. Thus, bad freelance sites.
Take a look at ImageBrief.com, I would love to create something similar. All the projects and the designers/writers/coders would be thoroughly vetted, no posting $10 an hour and no working for $10. I wouldn't even encourage my new graduates to earn that little, the most junior designer should start at a minimum $20 an hour. There is absolutely a market for it. I thought PPH was better since they seemed to look at my account and had to "approve it" (I wasn't approved at first, they wouldn't let me do an icon profile pic but made me add a photo). I had the impression they were, at least, kind of vetting but it turns out they are like the others. Let me know if you want to work together and launch something, my site is molly-mcgee.com (I'm starting the process of redesigning it - which it so needs - but the heavy hitting projects are all there).
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It might be interesting (if you guys haven't done so already) to visit the PPH facebook page and read Xenios' advice on raising money. It does partway explain some of what we've seen on PPH.
The problem with launching a freelance site is the catch-22 nature of attracting people to it. Freelancers go where there are jobs and clients look where there are freelancers and when you start you have neither. PPH is much more than just a website and Xenios put in the grunt work at the start to get PPH known out there and find freelancers to match people who wanted work done.
As much as I dislike some aspects of what PPH does, I do admire Xenios for getting it off the ground in the first place and he's the guy laughing all the way to the bank.
A rival site is going to need a lot of gruntwork to get it on the radar. I don't think it will be a case of 'make it and they will come'.
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I'm disappointed by the bitching over how the site is constructed. Those guys have got off their backside and are prepared to have a go. It may not be perfect technology, but neither is my car, but it still goes from A to B.
I think the technology of the website is the least of their problems.
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Hi All.
I have been following this thread since its inception and even aired some views/opinions in its early days. It resembles a chat in many ways, and has come a long way off topic many times. Some of the information has been interesting and some of the views have matched mine.
Many posts, however, are rants – personal ones at that – and seem to come at varying intervals from many newbies and occasionally from longstanding users, albeit that the latter are usually follow-ups on a new ‘defeat-ure’ by PPH. This is fine by me, but not really worth getting riled up about IMHO. We have noted the relentless self-indulgent and egotistical vein that has been followed for quite a while now, and while I originally hoped something would come of this thread and the input provided, I have to conclude that our voice is too meek.
The latest discourse concerning Maven has intrigued me. It seems that the site and its workings are being discussed before anything beyond a URL is laid in WORM. Perhaps it would have been wise to have an ‘Under Construction’ notice instead of a pre-view in place but, well the first impression is there. Basically, I think everyone is jumping the gun here. Until words become deeds, and there is a testable platform, any critique is misplaced
If you feel that there is room for a different/further platform for freelancers and free-buyers, give those Maven guys a chance to get their play in place. Help with the teething problems once it is out there and THEN form an opinion on the pros and cons. AFAIK there is nothing to bind anyone to Maven or PPH or any of the other platforms.
If you don’t like the idea of a different platform, stay where you are and bite the bullet. If you can do it better, have the resources and are prepared to take the plunge, then tell the world so that we can go and have a look. Just being disgruntled by a first impression isn’t going to solve any issues you may have, and venting them here just smacks of people looking for a chance to say “Told you so before it was even born”.I am not linked to Maven beyond having registered on the site. I don’t know who is really behind it. I don’t know what to expect. I will have a look once it’s rolling and then see if it is of use to me, just like I did with PPH and others.
If you are part of a community, root for it! If you can’t, you need to change.
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@ Roland. Well said! Same here, I am just a follower who has registered and am ready to give someone else a chance. For obvious reasons the freelancers behind Maven can't exactly stand up on here and shout "It's me!" although I'm sure they would love to. We will all see on the 1st exactly what it's like and should be making our judgements then,
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@Geoff-
It is only a matter of time before another freelancing website that has a better grip of policing and moderating activity will shine through and surpass PPH
I hope you're right! But most of all, I'd hope for the policing and moderation to be done in moderation and with wisdom.
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@Geoff. Thanks for putting that into perspective. If that was the live site, I might even agree with you. As Paul mentioned:
**The problem with launching a freelance site is the catch-22 nature of attracting people to it. Freelancers go where there are jobs and clients look where there are freelancers and when you start you have neither.
**Personally I'll let them get out of the water first and see what we have a little way down the line.
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