Penalize Hourlies with late deliveries
If you wanna know more details, please go to my account and check out the hourlies I bought till now and look by yourselves how long these people needed to have the work done and how long they promise they will have the work done and how many of them really care about the job, or how serious they are taking their hourlies? 50% or less? This is crazy! If they do not need the job, go and have some fun somewhere else and PLEASE do not waste other people's time!!!
I was trying to be nice all the way and I really didn't want to pay those hourlies which are delayed like 10 days, 20 days or even 1 month! Are you kidding me?
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I have just released my funds and when I checked the file its missing more than half of my work , I put a bad review but the person managed to take her bad review on her profile, this is really unfair, the seller treated me if I did not pay her.She insulted and offended me and got away with my money. How do I sort this? Where is the customer service from this website? Any numbers? Any help please? I am in shock is it like that..?
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What about clients that take their time - I don't rush them. Most of them work jobs, have families - lives. And getting the business started takes time. I've had a recent client that I've spent over two months working with (on an hourlie) take a week or more just to get back with me - and sometimes it took us two weeks to even have a call as she was sick and then again, busy. Not her fault and I in no way mind clients taking their time to also get feedback from friends/associates about aspects of the business. These are important decisions and I shouldn't have to rush my clients just to suit PPH and their new 'automatic' systems. It is very poor. PPH recently refunded her the full £399 even though the report was delivered on 3rd dec which was the bulk of the work and we are also in progress of the logo being done! The buyer is equally as unhappy and she also did not receive ANY emails from PPH to ask if she wanted a refund - which she did not. I've emailed PPH about this but as usual, very slow in responding and no feedback into looking into the workstream and contacting the buyer as I asked.
We all have to accept that it goes both ways and we all take some chance working with anyone. Nothing will protect us 100% from a bad seller or a bad buyer. There are both in business and both in PPH. The sellers cannot be the only ones to get penalised though - that is the difference here.
Both parties need to be held accountable and PPH especially needs to have less automation and more live customer service as an algorithm is not always the best way to deal with customers on your site. I'm sure this new deadline penalty will be automated as well. If so, I'll be removing all my hourlies and doing less work on this site I fear. I also sure as heck will NOT be recommending it - if this is the new way forward. If you want those 'certs' raised and us to 'invite', 'invite', 'invite' - give us the service we deserve AND pay for by-the-way. Thanks.
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I do not agree with this! I understand people should be penalized for not delivering etc. However, I have had clients buy hourlies and then not contact me for days, buy an hourlie and don't give me the information requested upfront. I think there is too much pressure on sellers already for example, lowering your cert if you give refunds (even if it was a kind guesture!), I don't think adding another way to penalize is fair!
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Thanks Glen, I appreciate your comment. Yes, the cert can be an okay thing but the problem again is that it is automatic and no allowance for grey areas. That's the biggest problem now with PPH - all these new automatic systems that don't 'read' workstreams or take anything outside of their parameters into question. People, live people, need to more hands on again here on PPH. Gone are the days of phoning up for help!! I had chosen to work on PPH primarily because of the excellent customer service when I first joined. The site is good in many ways but is going downhill with their over-implementation of automated services. There are a few UK similar sites just recently rebranded - so they should be more careful to retain the customers they have as well. Hopefully it all sorts out in the end.
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Hi Jennifer. I've had a lot of the same problems myself that resulted in a low CERT score, even though all of my feedback on my profile has been 100% customer satisfaction. As a result, I've decided not to accept any more work from PPH until they get their CERT system sorted out. The impression I get from PPH is that they aren't really concerned if it's just me boycotting them, but if we all e-mailed them to let them know we aren't going to use them or recommend them because of their CERT mess-up, I'm sure they will look at making the changes we demand from them.
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The CERT system is probably the biggest worry for me. A CERT is too close to a certification. A certificate is still seen as having been issued as a mark of quality when given the algorithm and scoring, it simply isn't the case. However, to a buyer, it is. So a lot of business will go the way of the seller with the highest cert, regardless of quality.
Another concern is how long before buyers start to get badly treated by sellers with a high CERT rating and after trying to deal with it via PPH, who indemnify themselves of all this, then complain to bodies such as the office of fair trading/trading standards about UK based companies for misleading advertising, bringing down the concept and thus ruining the platform for everyone.
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I am not sure who is winning here. Are there more bad clients or more bad subcontractors At the end of the day it is all irrelevant. Your experience at that particular time whether you are a client or a sub contractor clouds your opinion and it is all that matters to you! I would like to know what i need to do next as a client as I cannot get a response from my sub contractor on what I thought was fairly simple and to be fair relatively low cost. But I cannot wait forever and I don't want to pay for something I haven't got no matter how cheap. Bytheway it is a UK hourly. Any ideas ??
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As a freelance content writer of several years, I can see both sides of the issue as well. Unexpected developments can often lead to unavoidable delays. HOWEVER, I firmly believe in free communication as a proactive means of avoiding a lot of bad situations between clients and suppliers. I practice that principle in all my professional activities. First, I try very hard to prioritize work by soliciting specific terms for turnaround at the onset when I first submit a proposal. Alongside this, I state specific terms and conditions, such as "provided project is awarded within next 2 days. I can provide two 500-word articles per day" or similar language. This allows me to better anticipate actual ability to deliver and avoid raising unrealistic client expectations.
Likewise, when client input is needed to continue work but does not seem forthcoming within a reasonable time, I followup to remind them that I cannot proceed until I receive a response and anticipated turnaround delay to-date caused by client unresponsiveness. Similarly, if it appears that I cannot complete a job within any realistic turnaround timeframe, I promptly notify the client. I find that my candor is greatly appreciated and typically results in greater credibility and client confidence that in turn lead to continued patronage by itself! This is simply human nature to prefer honesty over deception of selfish parties who cause others detriment. Like clients whose projects are delayed due to unethical authors who attempt to retain the assignment rather than acknowledging inability to complete to desired client satisfaction or stated deadline.
While clients remain unresponsive, I agree that moving onto something else temporarily or permanently terminating efforts is merited. Which action is most appropriate depends on totality of relevant circumstances. Prime factors include length of business relationship, potential income from immediate and possible future projects, length of probable delay beyond desired deadline, availability of alternative work, and other such matters.
In any event, I strongly urge ongoing communications is best strategy. For instance, I have a frequent client on a content mill I've written for the last few years who sent a 10-piece direct order with stated desires of completion at the rate of one 500-word piece per day. After unexpected difficulties with other direct orders prevented me from beginning work on any of the 10 pieces for the next 2 days, I wrote the client and reassured him that I had NOT forgotten him and that he was definitely on my literary "to do" list, but was bogged down with other BIG education DOs. I further explained that based on his originally stated deadline of one article per day for ten articles, would lead me to conclude that I had up to ten days to have ALL work completed. As such, it would not occur at exactly one piece per day but sporadically where 2 or 3 pieces may come one day, followed by nothing for 2 days later, etc. HOWEVER, all work would be done no later than 10 days from original bulk order submission. I asked him to advise if this was acceptable, to which he promptly responded that would work fine for him. If I had not kept in touch to advise him of what was going on, he'd likely have become anxious and angry and perhaps even cancelled the entire project.
An equal obligation is inherent on buyers to be candid and communicate timely with sellers. If unforeseen budgetary difficulties arise or life emergencies, it is best to let the provider know to avoid wasting his or her time. Doing so will only cause ill will and bad feelings that more than likely lead to discontinued mutual benefits for both parties.
Well, there you have it in a nutshell. Communication keeps you on top of things.
Of course, time management is also essential to eliminate any probability of delays even occurring. Writers should not bite off more than they can chew, as this only leads to dissatisfied clients and a ruined reputation. By the same token, it is critical to set aside time to conduct vital administrative or managerial tasks, irrespective of pending workload. Failure to do so can cause serious financial strain from sudden PC hard drive failure, inefficient operations due to ignorance of various IT solutions, etc. Thus, in the long run I've found it best to reserve specific times or day and/or days of week to perform routine functions that keep lights burning and wheels turning smoothly toward profit - rather than certain disaster.
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I don't think there is anything wrong with the concept of an hourlie. I have found it works well for me so far, but then I haven't had a non-payer.
I do have people who buy the hourlie I advertise but the job they actually want is something completely different.
I have one client, who is lovely, but who drifts in and out of communication so a job can be left for a couple of weeks until they come back to me. That person initially bought an hourlie from me but really wanted/needed something more complex. That client did have the initial escrow deposit refunded but has since paid me much more.
I take the hourlie as saying the client wants help, probably in the area of what the hourlie is about. So long as they come forward with the details I need and any conversation doesn't indicate anything different, I can usually get the hourlie done within a day or two. Some clients are good and apply SMART principles, others quite frankly not so good, introducing project creep at the drop of a hat and don't expect to pay for it.
While it's a really bad thing if a client gets left in the lurch, there can be good reasons for that which might be beyond the freelancer's control - accident or injury resulting in hospitalisation or being flooded out being some scenarios. Likewise for the client.
I still think it is ridiculous to penalize freelancers. Most are a hard-working bunch of ordinary people looking to earn a living.
I think *people* should be penalized, not just freelancers; what about penalizing non-paying clients, or clients that introduce project creep and then claim the job isn't finished when the freelancer finally gives up on them ever paying or agreeing the project is complete? Each case really needs to be examined on its own merit.
I don't think people should be penalised if both parties agree the client can move the job on because the freelancer can't complete a job within a time-frame that meets the client's needs.
Kind regards
Lesley
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How about you do something about clients causing an hourlie to be late? What makes people think that if they buy an hourlie that should be completed within 5 days tops, they have a right to take 2 weeks to respond to messages? There should be a system that protects all of us, not just buyers.
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Got my first 1 star rating - off all people it was off PPH, who I believe I pay when I work on here? I did not not deliver my hourlie but as it was different from the hourlie he bought and a bit of a suck it and see if it works job, we decided not to go through with the full job but after I had supplied him an example of my work. So annoyed and can't even find how to contact PPH to vent!!!!!!!!!!
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I agree with Sofia's idea of:
"A simple system of buyer applies to buy an hourlie which the seller must accept gives the freelancer an opportunity to ask the buyer for all relevant info and make a decision before being bound by a contract."
Some of my Buyers don't read fully the description of the hourlie or don't understand what they are actually buying. In those cases I did another service than was described in the hourlie with adjusted price but that caused delay many times or I had to just make a refund.
"Accept hourlie" option for the Seller or "Contact the Seller" before buying the hourlie for the Buyer would prevent misunderstanding, disappointments for both sides and finally penalty issue for delay.
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I have to agree with Ana. There are many times when a client will purchase an hourlie and then not provide the information needed to complete the job,
If you state 24hrs for completion but the client takes a week or two to provide the details, why should the freelance face a penalty?
Maybe have some option, similar to Greg's idea, whereby the clock only starts ticking when the freelancer has all the information to hand and accepts the job. In that way, any delay is down to the freelancer.
I have one hourlie on the go that should have been delivered nearly 3 weeks ago. The client has been unable to obtain all of the information they need to pass onto me but we are communicating and they are happy.
However, the hourlie will be nearly month a late when delivered through no fault of my own. Should I have a penalty?
PPH rely on clients to buy services, but more importantly they rely on freelancers to carry out those services well so those clients return to the platform.
Us freelancers need a bit more protection as one negative review or penalty, through no fault of our own, can affect our earning potential and you could end up losing a very good money maker.
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Original response made August 2013...
Very soon, sellers that deliver their hourlies late will be penalized
August 06, 2013 09:29
I like the fact that 'very soon' is ambiguous but it's now 6 months since this was posted.... How soon is very soon? I think that this sums up the frustration of stating a deadline and then failing to meet it or communicate back as to why the deadline is missed.
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What about clients that purchase hourlies then take a month to get back to you? Works both ways I think - Freelancers I would suggest you all put a disclaimer on your hourlies that states that the timeframe is subject to an agreed start date/time. Clients cannot expect to purchase an hourlie and have the work done for them an hour later. It isn't realistic as most people have probably already got work on. Clarity it key here.
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The whole automated rating system is flawed. I had a client two days ago purchase an hourlie but did not have a website nor had 2/3 of the information I needed.
It was quite clear he had purchased the hourlie too soon. After exchanging messages, I suggested I refunded him, offer some simple advice at this stage and then he can purchase the hourlie at a later date, he was very happy with this.
The refund was approved and minutes later I received a 1/5 star rating and a 'Job not Delivered' review.
So by putting the client first I received a negative rating. If I had left his money in Escrow and waited for months for the information, I would have been penalized for late delivery!
In all cases - late delivery, mutually agreed refund, etc. the system should flag it up and PPH review the workstream manually to see the reason, after all, this is why all communication is meant to go through the workstream to protect buyer and seller.
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So now do you automatically get a 1/5 for refunded hourlies??? That's just not fair - I've had clients change their mind, and all sorts - I've got one hourlie on-going that I've done the work for but just can't get an answer from the client - I was going to refund him and be done with it as it not a great deal of money - I use my hourlies as sort of 'loss leaders' to get bigger projects. There has to be a better way that protects client and freelancer.
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For the first time I have come across a buyer who never bothered to reply to messages, so I did their documents with guidance notes, options you can take. They PAID the invoice! Yet several days later, I get a note from PPH putting the onus on me, threatening my CERT level, threatening my income. Why? No advice from me that the jobs gone wrong, in fact, they don't tell me anything until they have removed the money from the account!
Here's the threat "Oh no! XXXXXXX rejected your Invoice ID - XXXXXX-X
Please get in touch with Xxxxxx to reach an agreement and continue the Job.
We would advise you to provide them with revisions until they are satisfied, correct any errors, deliver any pending tasks and share the final files of the Job on the workstream.You could settle the case by offering them to pay a lower amount. To do so, just raise a new Invoice.
If you are unable to resolve this and you believe you should receive payment for completed you can raise a Dispute. But keep in mind that raising a dispute will affect your CERT score and your ranking on PPH. Most disputes can be prevented with some good will and compromise. We highly recommend you try working it out with the Buyer before going down this route.So, I did the job, in fact, I went further because the client never bothered with communicating. I gave them a belt and braces version. A 12 year old could have followed instructions. I tried contacting them three days late, then a further two, then three. How many times am I supposed to try and contact them?
Yet PPH assume the faults mine, advise me to drop my costs to buy the client off!
Then the one thing that has for me destroyed the trust in PPH, I am advised if I raise a query, I mean why would a fully qualified Solicitor who has done five hours work for £100 not want to query this advice, it will affect my CERT, something I have tried to build despite a set of algorithms that's a but hit and miss.
The above demonstrates that PPH only believe the clients. Query their point of view and lose your CERT level. Yet this client tried to get me to email the documents rather than through the system. The same client offered to pay direct and split the PPH commission 50/50. All this to a Solicitor who said NO!
I sent the client a long and well informed reply, I even offered to do extra work at cost to me. Guess what, no reply from them. So as far as I see it. Defend my position and get penalised. Don't defend, lose money and lose ranking places, level of trust, level of equitably.
How is all this right. The only loser in all this is me, the Freelancer. I can stand up in a court and be believed, yet supply a contract that' would have cost them £800 had they come in to Practice for a fraction of the price and one comes across from the systems perspective as the wrongdoer.
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I'm sorry, as a client, I wait and i'm still waiting for a response from an hourly 1 week after he told me he would email tomorrow, i agree if you don't want the work, don't accept it. Surely they should be able to say no I can't work for the next month I decided to have a life!! but as least tell the idiot that paid the money who just wanted the job done quickly. At elance, at least things get done!
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I agree, but there has to be a balance, the customer and the freelancer has to be able to watch the work or the emails need to be monitored so the freelancer is on top of it, and the customer can get his/her finger out. I know being in business customers can be a right royal pain, but at the end of the day without them I wouldn't be in business. I would of preferred for the freelancer to say, "sorry I can't do this for 10-20 days, if this is not okay with you then please find another freelancer". At least that way I know where I stand, rather than waiting and waiting and waiting without even a response. That's the frustrating thing, If I told a customer I would be there in 5 days time and just never get back to them, guess what they would just go somewhere else. I thing buyers should also be starred, but then they will just sign up with different email addresses etc to get out of it. The responsibility must be on the freelancer to either deliver the work or say I can't deliver the work. If you go to the supermarket you expect to get goods, you don't say I will leave $100 in escrow and come back when you have the time to serve me or have groceries. You just go somewhere else. If I want to build a good client base I deliver on time, or I tell the customer what is viable and what isn't, at least that way they know where they stand. Under promise and over deliver, don't over promise and under deliver or just not deliver period.
And PPH should have a system where they email the freelancer and say "hey we noticed you have received 10 jobs in the last week and none are complete, can we contact the buyer and let them know that there is a delay, or that you are unable to fullfil the job requirements at this time". Give the freelancer a chance to pass the work on to other freelancers that are quiet and begging for work.
Yes as a customer, i'm probably as painful as the next but as a business man, I would rather over tell a client the way it is and deal with the consequences than to not tell the client anything and lose them for good. A simple project goal for both parties would work, the hourly is treated as a project, and each person has to meet their milestones, if the buyer doesn't he gets hounded with emails daily, and if the freelancer doesn't he get's the same, and the customer can't just give negative feedback so that the freelancer's "rating and cert and ability to win business will be affected by this" it's judged as a whole project and the PPH guru's can decide who is at fault. And for the record in my case I have emailed all the details required, and followed up every other day as to how the project was progressing, and was any further information required, and I get the silent treatment. That I can get at home! :D
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