Buyers Accepting Proposals Automatically Starts The Job
Here's how job proposals work in the real world:
- Contractor sees job ad.
- He/She sends a general proposal based on the general info. in the ad.
- Contractor and prospective client discuss the job in detail.
- Contractor breaks down how he/she will tackle the job and states the budget.
- Prospective client either agrees and the job officially begins, or the prospective client disagrees and they discuss the job some more until an agreement is or isn't reached.
Now here's how it seems to work on PPH:
- Contractor sees job ad.
- He/She sends a general proposal based on the general info. in the ad, and is forced to state how he/she will tackle the job despite knowing very little about it.
- Prospective client accepts the proposal and the job officially begins.
This is a problem.
It forces sellers to choose between doing work they'd rather not do with a client they'd rather not work or issuing a refund; there is no withdrawing a proposal once the buyer accepts it.
Personally I had to ask PPH to issue a refund because a client was unable to supply the information I needed to begin a job I never accepted or even began. What's more, for some reason the buyer and I were both allowed to leave feedback on each other's profiles despite my never accepting the job or even starting it.
And here's one possible solution: allow sellers to respond to job postings *without* filling in the 'Proposal Breakdown' section.
This would allow the buyer and the seller to discuss the job, ensure they can work together, and then set an appropriate payment to be approved by *both* parties.
Apart from the obvious benefits to buyers and sellers, it would generate more money for PPH because allowing sellers to discuss their fees *after* discussing the job enables them to ask for and justify higher payments instead of than "proposing" both concurrently right at the start before they have all the information. The more the buyers spend, the more PPH makes.
It would also reduce the resources PPH spends on processing refund requests, and it would cut the bad will generated towards PPH presently felt when its users have to choose between doing bad jobs or requesting refunds.
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Official comment
Hi both,
Thank you for your messages,
The way PeoplePerHour works can work for or against the seller depending how you use it and how the buyer uses it. Of course if a buyer is new to the platform then they may simply 'accept' the proposal that suits them best and not use the 'job proposal' for how they are meant - to open a line of communication.
The way I always encourage buyers and sellers to use proposals, and the workstreams after, is to find if you are both a 'fit' for each other and whether you are suitable for their requirements. This can be exacerbated by lack of information that can sometimes litter the job descriptions board.
I will pass on your concerns regarding the proposals/clarification boards.
Stephen, what you should do to get around your issues with cancelling proposals, instead of cancelling your proposal, get your buyer to write and agree to a new outline for the job that needs doing and increase the budget in escrow, then you will keep your proposal credits.
If escrow amounts need reducing you can do so by refunding an amount applicable, however this will damage your CERT score, it is up to you in this case what is more important.
Please let me know if I can help with anything else.
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And before someone from PPH mentions using the 'Clarification Board'—they don't work.
Buyers don't feel like disclosing key information or even discussing their job in public view, and it seems anything posted by a seller has to be approved by PPH, which means it can take hours—if not a day—for a message to appear.
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It's something that multiple sellers have requested on multiple occasions, and all we get is he standard KellyBot response and f&*k all else.
One of the most frustrating parts is that there is STILL no way of amending the original proposal if the buyer and seller have had the proper discusions to ascertain the scope of the job, as would happen in real life.
Instead the proposal has to be cancelled and redone, which can cost 1-3 credits.
It's a sham and a scam by PPH.
If a buyer withdraws the job after accepting a seller, the seller get penalised with no recourse.
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Kelly. That is not acceptable. You're putting the onus on the buyer to do this, and getting buyers to do anything is pretty hard!
What this inevitably leads to is Buyer apathy. You're trying to suggest a solution to a problem that needs tackling in a more suitable way.
There needs to be a way for the Seller to either modify the existing proposal so the buyer can accept it, or simply to add an amended proposal to the existing feed - without a credit charge, as the original proposal has already been charged.
The buyer can then accept that. It's the simplest and most professional approach mimicking real world methods.
Again, asking the buyer to change the job is simply wrong. Typical of the cack-handed way PPH approach the whole proposal system!
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Hi Kelly and Stephen,
Kelly wrote:
"Of course if a buyer is new to the platform then they may simply 'accept' the proposal that suits them best and not use the 'job proposal' for how they are meant - to open a line of communication."
But this is the whole problem—proposals are designed almost solely for rushing both parties straight to payment. A seller can't send a proposal without specifying both the price of doing a job and the deposit.
And I agree with Stephen, a well-designed platform makes solving such problems the concern of the designer(s), not the end users. I know that you, Kelly, are not in charge of such things, but it would useful if you could pass on to PPH the need to more frequently communicate with its users about these kind of UX problems.
Regards,
Joseph
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Hi Joseph and Stephen,
I hope you are both well, I have seen that you are still unhappy, therefore I have opened a separate feedback ticket for you Stephen, and I will further your latest feedback, Joseph, to our products team now.
As you have clearly understood in your post, this is all I can do I am afraid.
Thank you for your feedback.
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Feedback thread: https://support.peopleperhour.com/hc/en-us/requests/673020
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Hi Stephen,
I think there was a misunderstanding, having read your message to Customer Support. In my original message to you I was stating that you, as a seller should write the new scope of the work, and that the buyer should then write to agree to the new scope of the work that you will be undertaking (so PPH have a log of this new agreement) and then the buyer should increase the budget. This way of doing things will; 1) enable you to keep your credits and 2) allow the PPH dispute team see any and all agreements between you and the buyer if anything goes wrong.
I hope that is clearer? It is less work if anything for youand the buyer than having to cancel a workstream etc.
I hope you manage to find resolutions to your other feedback too.
Kind regards.
Kelly
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Kelly. It's still totally the wrong way of going about it. The original job SHOULD NOT change. It's essentially the paper trail for the whole task!
It's NOT less work. It's more, and asking the buyer to do anything on PPH is an exercise in futility.
The simple and correct solution is to allow additional proposals to be placed on a pre-worksheet thread, each one superseding previous proposals and updating the quote accordingly.
This is how proposals are supposed to work. Getting the buyer to jerry rig a job description to fit the quote is frankly ridiculous.
Thanks
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Many years passed from this issue was raised but general problem is still presented.
Why I had to start work after client's offer automatically accepted. Client has read description not correctly and chosen wrong (minimal) budget.
Give to freelancer the possibility accept the offer or change it after all become clear.
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