Lack of projects to bid on?
I have been a full time freelancer on PPH for many years, but I've seen hardly any new projects to bid on in the last few weeks. Though there are some, there's certainly a lot fewer jobs available. Despite having a lot of project views, I haven't had a single buyer in a week, which is hugely unusual.
Is anyone else noticing the same thing? Why could this be?
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Suddenly a TOP CERT - there is something very suspect here.
I requested that her application be checked because her English was extremely poor. Actually I think it's a man because of manner in which this person communicated. Didn't seem female. PPH reassured me that documents were correct, but of course that doesn't stop others logging in and using account. Beats me how and why this person gets good reviews. Totally baffling.
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There are many other accounts that I fund suspicious if I am honest. I have been using PPH for over ten years and to see someone get 18,000 points on the leaderboard (£3600) in one go is almost unheard of. In all the time of using the platform, I have never had an order of that size and that is with my profile and reputation....how these people are doing it is beyond me.
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Thanks Nancy ! Hopefully your right about AI not affecting my work, still pretty much dead for me work wise thoughso hopefully things improve for all of us.
Im hoping Ai will just be a novelty at the moment as i know for example content writing google doesnt like ai generated text.
@Craig - I imagine £3600 is a rare job but dont think its impossible, i myself sell Magento websites and think my highest one was £2900 in one go through PPH, most agencies charge £6k plus for these.
Regarding the leaderboard, at least you two can see yours mine has dissapeared now so i have no idea whats going on in that regard. I can only guess the lady Maria H who has come out of nowhere the last 18 months is smashing it though, she seems to sell absoltuley loads in my categories, hings like infographics for £120, and has no problem leaving her buying history showing shes buying from others for £20-30, i can only assume shes taking absolutley everything she can and outsourcing some of it, but good on her i guess! -
I have seen her and she is smashing it in several categories I think, I do wonder how that is the case because to take work you have to attract it or win it. I apply for a lot of projects and my success rate is very low in reality. I have never really had to look for projects as the work has always come to me but that is no longer the case so in recent months, I have been looking for it with little success.
Things have to pick up but as you say, I do hope that this AI is a novelty although I have heard that Google is not bothered by AI generated content. As long as it is engaging and informative, it'll get indexed but who knows!
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In answer to Liam's original question, I am a programmer and I work mostly with VBA macros in Excel. I have a background in other programming, but I narrowed it down because that was the type of work people had. I started on PPH about 6 or 7 years ago but it has only ever been a supplement to my income. I have been CERT 5 most of the time and, although I have been at the top edge a lot, I've never got above that. I do have an offer that gets some interest but most of my work comes from bidding on projects, or private invites from people who have found my profile.
The work fluctuates and it was very bad during covid. It picked up a bit from last summer and now it is completely dead again. I don't think AI has anything to do with it, yet. I think technology is moving on and many of the people who want Excel macros are older, like me, and they are gradually retiring. I can see it isn't just me and my field that is having the problems. A wider economic downturn won't help because it gets a lot harder for someone low down in a company to get authorisation to outsource a project. People are probably keeping work in house and doing it themselves.
Two years ago I started doing some online maths tuition. I enquired after a job on PPH and widened the search and then spent over a year working freelance for a bigger tuition provider, but it was very low paid, and then they cut the pay further, so I left. I was with another company who provided tuition to schools, but it was also low paid, and there were many problems, so I left that one after a 3 month application process and 3 weeks of working.
There seems to be a pattern where bigger companies with a slick sales and marketing team and a budget are intercepting the work and then contracting it out to freelancers at very low rates. I suspect the profiles you mention on PPH with a large turnover are doing the same. PPH have some kind of scheme for bringing in work from outside with no commission and perhaps people are doing this, and then contracting out the jobs at a very low rate. I don't know where they get them from in the first place. I have tried advertising my website and I either get nothing or I get hammered by Google. There is no in between any more. -
I am just looking at the top sellers for this month already and the figures just don't add up. We all know how long it takes to build up a reputation and attract orders. I have joined other similar platforms and in the last 6-9 months, I have not had a single message from anyone on them, proving how competitive it really is.
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Wow, that is shocking Nancy, I really feel for you. I have made around 9 sales so far this month albeit they have not been completed/invoiced/paid yet, so it is not showing in the leaderboard. However, 7 of those are from an ongoing client that I have worked with for many years. I am not sure how people with a top cert rating and sales like you and myself can simply drop off the radar. Honestly, I have noticed very small peaks and troughs through the years but not like this. If you can look at the leaderboard, use the drop down menu and then compare the months of this year to the months of last year across different sellers and leaderboard winners. You should see a massive difference in sales, points and more!
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Craig, I am denied access to the leaderboard until I complete a project and feedback is given. I haven't had any work!
AI is definitely to blame. It can take an audio or video file and turn it into a blog post.... It can proofread an article.... It can transcribe interviews attributing names to each voices... It can pull out important points from a meeting given in text, audio or video format.
I was transcribing meetings, webinars, seminars, conferences, etc manually, editing out umms, ahhs, things like that. AI can do it in seconds - might not be as accurate but the recipients don't care as it's for personal use.
I do have a couple of regular private journalism projects which I hope will continue. They're only quarterly though.
Not holding out much hope here, I'm afraid. Sad how regular clients drop you in favour of automation. You mean nothing :(
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This is the thing, people/businesses just look at the cost and then decide it's easier to use AI. It has left me feeling completely lost at how quickly it has all happened. I had a client accuse me back in December of using Chat GPT. At that moment in time I had no idea what it actually was. He didn't believe me so I spent another 45 minutes recording my screen so he could see me typing up the article again. I needed to research what it all was and even then I thought nothing of it. Now it is hurting me and many others.
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God this is awful i feel for you guys, its very concerning wondering what the future for freelancing is going to be. Ive started to look into other career paths but honestly at 46 i dont really know what else to do ive been doing this since i was 25.
For some odd reason today my profile claims ive had a huge spike of 242 profile views (usually 5-10 a day), which i dont beleive for a second considering ive not had a single new enquiry !
Yeah i agree AI is VERY concerning, after our conversation i was talking to another freelancers and he said i wasnt safe either, hes mentioned something called adcreative that designs and generates adverts and learns how to tweak them to hone in on more clicks as well as flyer design generators and even website mockup generators. Ive had a look and they are certainly not amazing but to be honest are better than some lower experienced designers ive seen on PPH and if any of you know anything about chat gpt youll know its only on version 4, the 5th version and so on are said to be given much more of a wider spectrum of data to work with so the potential is exponential ! Its very concerning for so many people ! Add that to the current climate, cost of living its terrifying !
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@Liam - I'm older than you, was the main earner in the home and now wondering where to go.
@Craig - this was posted on Linkedin in praise of AI and how it's changed their day. It really has opened my eyes to the fact that Otter and Chat GPT have ruined me.
... 1.
The Original: ChatGPT
If prompted correctly, it will save you dozens of hours.
ChatGPT is now a critical part of my research and writing process.
My top three prompts are:
👉 The 80/20 principle to learn much faster:
"I want to learn about [input topic]. Find and share the most important 20% of learnings on this topic that will help me understand 80% of it."
👉 Improve your writing by asking for feedback:
(Copy and paste your writing)
And type “I want you to proofread my writing. Fix any spelling or grammar mistakes and make suggestions to improve the quality and clarity of my writing”
👉 Get instant, articulate summaries of documents and articles
Type “I want you to, summarise the text and give me a bullet point breakdown of the key points and facts”
(Copy and paste article)
2. Grain
Grain gives a transcription of my video calls
This saves so much time in note taking and then following up for clarification.
This improves communication enormously as well. You can just send highlighted sections to anyone who didn’t attend or those afterwards who want notes.
3. Otter.ai
Otter is the holy grail for people who have ideas when they aren’t at the desk !
If you are walking down the road or just not at your desk, just speak into Otter and the app will transcribe what you are saying in real-time and makes the notes available to yourself and your team later on
4. Speechify
I am predominantly an audio learner so this app is incredible for me.
The app will just read out information to me. I quite like closing my eyes and just listening to a topic
If I’m feeling particularly bored and struggling to concentrate, I’ll get Snoop Dog to read it to me
5. GPT for Sheets & Docs
Having the power of GPT inside these documents is slightly mind blowing. You can use it for all sorts of tasks from; writing, editing, extracting, cleaning, translating, summarising, outlining, explaining and more
6. Glasp
Take a long video, click the browser extension and immediately you’ll get a quick summary of all of the key points.
7. Compose AI
Compose anything in Gmail & Google Docs
Automate replies on LinkedIn posts and Whatsapps
Compose emails for Gmail
Rephrase your own messages for Gmail and LInkedIn for better language and structure
My most used prompt in my gmail message compose box is “write (insert name) a professional email saying I cannot make the meeting at 4pm, but I will be available at 5pm and 6pm if they want to send me a calendar invite” and it will generate me a beautiful email with perfect spelling and grammar.
Bonus:
AskYourPDF
Share a link to a PDF and ask ChatGPT any questions about the PDF.
It can summarise the PDF immediately but also specific questions about dates, numbers and facts. -
There are now 1000s of AI tools doing many different things and in fact, chat gpt isn't the best out there any more I don't think. It is all a bit pie in the sky at the moment but it does feel as though the net is closing in and there is nothing we can really do. I have clients saying to embrace AI but how can you do that when it is taking clients away from you. Sure, I could use it to plan content structures and headings as well as generate topic ideas but I cannot do any of that if others are doing it themselves if that makes sense.
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Yes, my thoughts exactly, Craig - but still begs the question on how certain folk manage to attract a lot of work on here? No answer to that, is there?
Perhaps clients don't wish to use freelance platforms anymore too? Perhaps we ought to pitch directly to local companies / agencies?
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Yes there are but i think most of them use chat gpt or open ai's gpt4. Bing for example uses open ai. Not that it all matters though, its more about how the technology advances and if anything will ever be done before it wipes out 80% of IT, Admin, creative jobs etc.
Yeah im told to embrace it too, I was designing a book cover recently and the woman didnt like any of my images so i told i dont render / create / draw / paint or phyiscally create anything and that shed need to have some artist hand draw her something specific and come back to me with it. Within 10 minutes she came back to me with this beautiful introcate butterfly and when i asked if she was licensed to use it and where she got it from she obviously said Ai, mid journey specficially. I checked them out, Cartoon / real life drawings of exceptional quality and detail. It is impressive dont get me wrong but its more concerning for us creative types!
Its like skynet from the terminator movie instead of arnie and cyborg robots its apps and websites, instead of guns wiping out humans its generated content ! -
pasted this earlier but pending approval for some reason so have tsken links out of it
@craig - Yeah until this year ive never needed to post proposals to jobs, ive always had more than enough work come to me - atm all im getting is time wasters or responses saying my prices are too high, even though ive dropped them considerbly.
Regarding Ai - I cant speak for all search engines but it goes against googles guidelines see here --> removed Might be worth mentioning this in people offering content maybe title or description because I dont think people are aware.I myself wasnt aware but im working on creating my own website while work is slow and a friend of mine told me not to use ai generated text but also said If i do to run it through an ai detection remover which there are plenty online
Not sure if any of you have noticed this but the posted jobs seems to be getting worse and they cant be vetted, ones been posted by user called "2-=12-321-=4apP©© D." clesrly not been checked -
@Liam, with regards to images, I was recently working with a client who wanted four images with each article. These copyright-free images were getting harder and harder to find, so he suggested using AI images. He gave me a link to Bing and I was creating images based on the subject there. there was no need to worry about licenses etc etc and it took seconds.
I honestly never bothered responding to projects, unless something came up that I liked the look of. I had clients that would return time and time again but now they are dwindling. Put it this way, at the height, I would work on around 100 jobs/clients per month. I was outsourcing 25,000 words per week to one writer and outsourcing a lot of work to another writer, both of these have disappeared in a matter of weeks. That is how bad it has got. I was only mentioning to one of the writers a few weeks ago that I thought it had gone quiet but she was fairly adamant that it was normal and I liked her positivity but I was noticing a big shift and here we are today.
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I am pretty sure Upwork ban you for using AI due to copyright issues perhaps PPH should do the same. The leaderboard is always dubious to me I alway see people at the top with just 1 review in a month and I never believe it is possible - they would charge more than agencies especially when you read the review for the job
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I tried turning the question the other way round to see where I would go if I was trying to outsource a project of the type I do here, which would be an Excel VBA programming job. When I type the search into Google, Upwork are top with a sponsored advert. PPH are not sponsored but are on the first page, but the summary would not encourage me to click on the link. e.g:
"Find Freelance Vba Jobs & Projects. 1000's of freelance Vba jobs that pay. Earn money and work with high ... Excel VBA / Python Solution for Email Marketing."
They seem to be more interested in attracting the calibre of personnel that we see on the forum everyday rather than attracting buyers.
There are far more websites devoted to the specific type of work. They may be agencies or individuals who are outsourcing but I suspect the work is going to those places rather than coming here. PPH have stood still for years without improving their system and their marketing and they have been left behind and are not relevant any more. Our potential customers are no longer coming here to get their work done.
I tried working for an online company that was outsourcing everything and I was expected to chase leads that came in through the website and I would be given a name and a phone number. Some were just a waste of time. Others got as far as me giving a quote but the agency took my figure and doubled it, making the job too expensive, if I wanted to earn a sensible amount. I soon gave that up.
The total projects on PPH have been around 1800 all week. That used be the Monday morning level and it would start picking up. -
When they changed the commission structure, I believe they significantly reduced the marketing budget and the business itself. They did that TV advert but I assume it was not successful and since then the SEO and digital marketing for the platform is non-existent. They now outsource payments to WorldPay (not a bad thing when they had those 'payment' issues).
There seems to be no support now. ( I have a dispute with a client - they cancelled the dispute I raised, telling me to communicate and 25 working days later I am still seeking some help. Incidentally, I received an email saying they will refund the client in 2 weeks if nothing is actioned).
PPH advertised yesterday a freelancer that had no reviews since 2020 and was not logged in since 2022.
Why would any person trust the site?
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I remember the TV advert. It was terrible and I can't imagine it doing any more than just raising the company profile to make sure people have heard of them. Nobody seeing that advert would have thought of outsourcing a project to me through PPH.
If they are not even advertising with Google when I search for a place to outsource a project that I would want, and the search results are just making wild claims about "earn money from 1000s of projects" I'm not surprised that there is no work for me here.
They have to target buyers, not freelancers. Freelancers will come here if there is work. Without the work, the platform is dead.
Haven't we seen this before where a downturn in work seems to coincide with a cut in advertising? The time that they changed the commission was a very big step down and the platform has not been the same since. -
Very true Simon - the irony is they have a wealth of freelancers here to call upon to market the brand.
Statistics aren't adding up - I've had no work here for two weeks, yet my ranking as a Top Cert has not slipped.
Anyway - interestingly, today I looked up a profile of a lucrative client I haven't heard from here for over a year. I found their account had been deactivated. So I googled them, found their website and email address and contacted them to remind them of my services.
I have thus secured an £800 project - and I'm told the reason they no longer wish to use PPH is high fees and poor overall calibre. Sick of advertising other types of projects, receiving more than 50 proposals from candidates who just say 'I do this for you. Give me,' without detailing skills, experience, method of work, etc.
I've had to be proactive here. I haven't taken work away from PPH - note, this client deactivated themselves. I have been amazingly fortunate and am very, very grateful for this new project. That said, I fear for high quality, genuine freelancers on this site. It's degenerated into a poorly organised race to the bottom and I'd urge you all to seek work outside of this platform now.
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I personally think most of the UK freelancers left when the influx of cheap freelancers came across. I have loved this site but it needs an injection of innovation, customer service and policing.
Incidentally, I never knew that site such as mostaql.com existed and found all my PPH profile was imitated on it by numerous freelancers in the Arabic world (only found out when I googled my business)
Freelancing since Covid19 has changed and now with AI it really will be tougher to make a living.
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@Liam, I think there are a combination of things going on. The economy is worse, and we really need a sellers' market to get a steady supply of work and decent rates of pay. I think people and companies have got themselves organised to grab work that would otherwise have gone through PPH and they are more proactive in getting their clients, and probably quite ruthless when it comes to sub-contracting. In contrast, PPH have not adapted and they have fallen behind. In a difficult economy you have to look at how you can improve and win new clients and avoid losing existing clients and PPH are really hopeless on both counts.
I'm not convinced that AI is a big problem at the moment, although my work is less vulnerable. Last night I started playing around with Bing Chat to get it to write code fragments for me and after a couple of impressive results I caught it being very inaccurate. At best it is only a search tool and at worst it is counter productive. People can be reluctant to switch to new technology. -
@Simon. Bear in mind that a prospective client has to submit a lot of documentation to PPH, plus bank details, etc in order to register for an account. For some projects, it's far simpler to go to a reputable agency. Coupled with the fact that PPH haven't been strong on marketing themselves, I do think its platform is doomed.
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For me, I would say that AI is the biggest threat and I would say quite confidently that it is the reason why I have noticed a change. I went all the way through Covid working when businesses had stopped trading and money had stopped moving around, in fact, things were exactly the same. In recent months and years with the economy in the shape that it is in I still haven't seen much of a change but since Chat GPT started doing the round earlier this year, that is exactly when things changed.
I personally think that the fees for using this site are pretty good. They are a lot better than what they used to be. I am sure the fees for sales used to be around 24%. I am sure from a £100 order I would get around £76 which was shocking but now I only pay 9% and that drops a lot once you begin working with people long-term.
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I was just about to give one final attempt at featurng some of my offers when i noticrd theyve stuck the price up
theyve upped the price to feature from £9.95 to £14.95
and featuring offers directly to buyers from £12.95 to £19.95
I cant imagine many will be happy to pay such a price increase and it screams desperation from PPH !
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