New system aimed primarily at matching newer sellers with buyers
So now it seems I have to wait two hours before I can bid for a job. This is extremely unfair. Not only do experienced creatives/designers have to compete with an unfair playing field, ie people offered to do a job for £10 when it is clearly worth £100, we are now not allowed to bid for jobs as soon as they appear on PPH. What kind of system is this?!
Awful. Unfair. Unprofessional. Discriminatory.
Regards
C. Howe
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Hi Mike
I've just been invited to send a proposal for a job in Mandarin! The lack of feedback from PPH and the fact it was launched unannounced just gives the impression they are up to something and have a method behind their madness that only benefits them.
I am going to ask them now for figures on my past 6 months i.e. proposals sent and proposals actually accepted. They say I should be earning 4x more now that I am a level 4 CERT. Looking quickly at my stats I have now sent 5 times more proposals and received 6 times less work! As you say, the first 2 hours are crucial. I would go as far as saying the first half an hour. I constantly look at the job lists at least twice an hour to try and get a competitive edge. I suggest newcomers who are serious about getting work through the site put in the same effort and dedication as we all have to get to our position.
This needs removing ASAP but I can only see this happening after at least a month (if at all). By which time, the people new to the site will have been advantaged in climbing through the rankings. I have n problem with competition and the site does need to filter the good from the bad, but it needs to be an even playing field.
Mike L
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When looking at the job board, is there a way to tell if the jobs are 'blocked'? I haven't seen anything to indicate this, but have suggested they indicate the blocking clearly so that I don't waste my time opening and reading the link.
Now, I don't think that that is in their interest because we'd notice that 75% of the jobs are blocked for 2 hours?
In all of this, I wonder what the Buyers, our clients, think about this???? Any thoughts on how to find that out?
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Well Roland, I've been on the receiving end of it at both angles.
I tried to post a job - I didn't stipulate anywhere that I wanted any restrictions on who could apply for it. There were certain freelancers I knew would see it and wanted them to bid.
One of them - a very reputable freelancer with fantastic reviews - sent me a note through clarification questions asking me to invite her as she had been blocked for 2 hours. I did this and we conducted business. I wanted the most accomplished freelancers, yes, but I didn't agree for restrictions and I would have carefully considered all options.
I don't see why pph should get involved at all. They're very good at doing what isn't required. Just leave us, buyers and sellers to do what we do best. I've received stupid jobs to bid for - Mandarin too, building construction, mapping?
I have emailed constantly and received stock response that they're trying to help new freelancers. Don't understand why they would get involved. The jobs get accepted by someone able and they receive commission anyway - be it a new or experienced freelancer. Own goal springs to mind in outcome? Anyway, I need to earn money, and will not be letting this one drop.
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Thanks for the input Nancy.
I have considered using the clarification box for similar purposes, but basically I’m someone that wants to get on with it and send a proper proposal – with the clarification questions in it.
I agree that PPH should just do their thing and let the market platform do its thing, as it is supposed to. If it didn’t work, they (and us) would have been out of business a long time ago. I also feel strongly about keeping PPH real and fair, but if this kind of hurdle is thrown too often, I will have to review my options. I too, didn’t join PPH on a whim, but to offer my services to potential clients and earn money – so, yeah, it is important.
Regarding the false job offers (not applicable to my skills) - I get more of those than others! I do react, but obviously this just goes into some repository for their algorithm and doesn't really get implemented on an individual basis.
I too am keeping a steady stream of queries which are responded to in a standard (partially) canned way. I'll keep it up for a while, but it is interfering with real work somewhat.
I hope we’ll get more feedback.
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This system is a failure, it simply does not work!!!
Furthermore, you can bypass this nuisance which proves it has some major flaws. You can still send proposals if you login via your tablet/iphone app. You can also send a proposal if you as the buyer a question? I mean seriously?
Bad move PPH!!!
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Berto/Roland
I have just tried sending a proposal through my iphone app and I was still blocked. This sham just gets worse.
I am being blocked more and more from sending proposals for the jobs were 90% of my PPH income comes from.
I have sent a tweet to the CEO but not heard anything back yet.
Mike
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PPH... You silly billy.
Why do you want to try and manipulate the jobs we can apply for? I am at CERT 5 and my work with you has dried up. If it wasn't for my recurring clients, I wouldn't even waste my time with your silly ideas and your new job farming ideas.
I advise everyone to just ignore any job that is posted to you with the title.. GO GET IT!
What a cheek. GO GET IT indeed, what a laugh.
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Well here's a reply for you all to look at that I have just received from PPH Customer Support Manager:
Hello mike
Thank you for your message.
My name is Michael and I am the Customer Support Manager here at Peoplperhour.com. My adviser Panos has forwarded your message to me in order to try and better assist you.
I am very sorry to hear that you are not happy with our new matching feature that was introduced recently. The feature has been brought as an improvement based on a large amount of feedback that we received from our user base and in order to meet better quality on the platform. We understand that as this has a new feature there may still be some issues and problems as to how it works and these are being looked into by our developer team on a daily basis to make sure that all users benefit from this. If we receive a large amount of complaints we will most definitely be looking to correct them and to make changes based on this.
We do advise for users to take a look at their skills settings to make sure they are the ones they want to be able to bid for and we are also inviting you as well to certain jobs that others cannot bid ones well. The idea is to deter sellers who do not actually have the correct experience from bidding on certain types of work in order to have more quality work completed on the side.
I apologize if this has created a negative effect on your account and as stated this is a feature that is being constantly worked on by our developers in order to make sure that the transition is running correctly. Please bare with us until this is 100% corrected and i am sure that you as a seller will also gain in the long run from such a system. At this point we do not have plans on removing this feature, but we will be producing all user feedback to our developer and product departments to investigate all issues.
I have passed your email communication along top both departments and i do hope they are able to resolve the issues.
This could not be any more wrong.
Mike
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To quote from the response Mike got - "We do advise for users to take a look at their skills settings to make sure they are the ones they want to be able to bid for…”
This is what I find most frustrating about this new system, and PPH's responses to complaints about it. I've have 'taken a look' at my skill settings - I did it when I set up my profile, choosing those most relevant to me, and I did it again when this was introduced. I want to be able to bid for jobs I am qualified and capable of doing - that's pretty simple. But I am allowed only 10 skills, so I have to choose between, for example, "Sales Letter" and "email marketing" - to fit both in, I’d have to lose another key skill instead. Both these require very similar skills, but if I choose one, I'm barred from making proposals for a time in the other. It makes no sense. Or should I instead choose "Marketing Writing"? That covers sales letters and email marketing, surely? But what if I choose Marketing Writing and the buyer tags the job "email marketing"? I lose out again, for a completely arbitrary reason.
It may be that PPH are working on this to make it less rigid, in which case great - but it would be nice to know that.
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The message from PPH's Michael (posted by Mike and now commented on by me, Mike - a different one) seems pretty clear. We have to put up with whatever they bring in no matter the damage it will do to our earning ability. Frankly, it's like the longest form of "F Off" I have ever seen.
PPH does not own us nor does it have the right to dictate terms to us if we don't want them to. We can walk away and go elsewhere. I think that might be the only thing PPH will listen to.
This is an option I wouldn't normally recommend but PPH's attitude to our plight is more than obvious.
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Emily
Another big problem with the skills issue is that even if we have the right skills in our profile, and PPH manage to correct all the errors in matching that are happening, AND they were to allow us a longer list of skills instead of the currently meagre 10, this still does not guarantee you will be selected early for a job for which you are highly qualified. An email I received from Panos a few days ago trying to justify this new feature stated clearly:
"Having a relevant skill set doesn't mean you're guaranteed to be selected for the matching feature each time. It is rotating, and as I mentioned in the initial email, while you might not be selected for one job, you will be for another."
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The latest response I have is as follows:
Thank you for your message.
We are aware of the link that you have provided me as we are aware of the multiple complaints made from many more users who requested we try something new in order to filter and match work more appropriately. We are working on making this better and would appreciate you patience while we do this to get things right. We have over 3,000 users who have asked for this change and this is why we are giving a try to something that could benefit the entire PPH community. We will not be able to bring this down until we see the results and fix any bugs that may exist.
So, i ask for you patience while we get this done and i have forwarded your concerns to the entire department including our CEO to review. The feature took months in the making and it was created to provide better service for our customers. We realize that there may be issues and complaints, however we need to give this some time to indeed realize its results and functions.
Kind regards,
Michael
PPH Customer Support Manager -
Surely it is down to ourselves to match our own skills to the jobs that are available? It is simple as it is - I am a graphic designer, I search through the design jobs, I choose ones that match my skills and I make a proposal! It has been working great for me for over 12 months....and then in a 10 day period a change is made and I have no work through the site! Well done PPH!
Maybe I should become a buyer and see if there are any legal experts on PPH who can check out the legality of what is basically a restraint on trading.
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Any work place solicitors here?
If a job is advertised, should it not be open to all without discrimination of any kind? Is PPH only allowing certain users to apply for an advertised job, restricting other users who would also like to apply for the job?
It doesn't feel lawful to me.
Just a question...
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Another example - a job was posted earlier asking for pages for a tutoring website. I have numerous examples of writing for tutoring websites in my portfolio and testimonials from happy clients. I have copywriting listed as a skill. Yet I couldn’t bid. By the time I could make a proposal, the job had been awarded - only two proposals were made.
I have no problem losing out on a job to another freelancer, as long as if I'm losing on a level playing field, proposal against proposal! But it was not level.
The buyer may have received the perfect proposal out of those two, or maybe they were in a hurry, and of course that’s fine. But they are likely to be completely unaware that qualified and interested freelancers were being blocked by the site from bidding.
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Michael, PPH Customer Support Manager, wrote (see earlier comment from Mike on this thread):
We are aware of the link that you have provided me as we are aware of the multiple complaints made from many more users who requested we try something new in order to filter and match work more appropriately. We are working on making this better and would appreciate you patience while we do this to get things right. We have over 3,000 users who have asked for this change and this is why we are giving a try to something that could benefit the entire PPH community. We will not be able to bring this down until we see the results and fix any bugs that may exist.
So, it is claimed that 3,000 users have asked that PPH make some changes to try something new in order to filter and match work more appropriately. Did those "3,000 users" actually ask specifically for the Selected Seller system, as it has currently been implemented? Did they really ask that PPH only invite a select few sellers to bid on jobs in the first 2 hours (many of them completely mismatched), whilst barring hundreds, perhaps thousands, of others from doing so on each job? Even if they did, that 3,000 would amount to less than 0.5% of all the users registered on the PPH system (currently 642,854). OK, so not all of these accounts will still be used. But even if you assume that only 50% of them are live, then that 3,000 only amounts to less than 1% of users asking for this change. Is that really enough demand to make such a change without consulting ALL PPH users before doing so? And, by the way, who exactly are these “3,000 users” and how active, as either buyers or sellers, are they on PPH?
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And I would add that there are likely to be far more users out there unhappy about this system but who have not yet complained directly to PPH. This may be because they don't know how to complain (the helpdesk email address is not exactly easy to find), or that they fear complaining in case it counts against their CERT score, likelihood of being a Selected Seller for anything for which they are qualified, or being able to do business on this site. Add to that the many people out there who will just "vote with their feet" and stop using this site altogether (buyers and sellers).
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The reply from Michael to Mike is probably the most disheartening content on this subject that I have read. The fact that PPH has no intention of shelving this inadequate system is devastating to many a PPH seller. It would seem that the Captains of this vessel are all out to sink it, in terms of sinking their most valuable assets, the People that work Per Hour. The apologies are well meant, but do not address the issue. The Matchmaking is a given.
I’ll second Fiona on her musings regarding those 3000 requests. Who exactly are those folk that requested some matching system, what are their track records on PPH and when were those requests lodged? A load of balderdash is what I think. Same applies to the question of attending to complainst they either don’t have the time or cannot find a good way to communicate their issues.
Emily’s points are all well-articulated and apply in some form to all the issues written about here. In particular her last post (before this one) is absolutely on point – no algorithm that PPH builds based on skillsets is going to level the playing field for the sellers and it sure as heck won’t give the buyer the best possible choices.
I am not mutinous or rebellious and I am a firm believer in fairness. What I read from the posts leads me to think that I must find a further outlet for my skills. I know how important the customers are (for freelancers those are the buyers) but I do believe that the sellers are clients too – those of PPH. As a seller, I would like to be given the due respect, and moreover would like that the entire community is given that respect too.
On reflection, I became a member of this community because I saw a platform that was oriented toward fairness, and respected both buyers and sellers - The Market, in other words. Things have been changed by the very creators of PPH, and fairness seems a bygone on this platform.
To The Mikes, Roger, Carl, and all those that share the interest of fairness and are dubious as to the ‘lawfulness’ of the matching system introduced by PPH, I would like to put forward a thought. I am not a lawyer/solicitor by any means, but it does seem to me that PPH is disregarding an element that empowers it to function as it does and I quote from the PPH Terms of Website Use ( http://www.peopleperhour.com/static/terms-of-website-use )
“We are solely a marketplace for buyers and sellers to interact. We do not search for, select or introduce buyers and sellers to each other. As a result, we are not regulated under employment law and in the UK the Employment Agencies Act 1973 and the Conduct of Employment Agencies and Employment Businesses Regulations 2003 or other** employment agency laws do not apply to us**.”
In my understanding PPH-Matching is using a method by which they are ‘searching, selecting’ and ‘introducing’ buyers and sellers to each other in a manner that has little or nothing to do with open and fair markets. The mere idea of a selection algorithm contradicts their statement. This in turn raises the question of their non-regulatory status in implementing ‘Matching’.
I’ll second the calls for some solicitors on this. Anyone?
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This question was being asked in multiple places throughout the forum. Please keep conversation related to this feature here so that we (your customer service team) and our products team may read all your comments and questions together, in one place. It just makes the process easier for us should we need to make any modifications, it would be helpful if all your feedback was in the same place. Thank you :)
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Other topics that have been opened up with regards to this feature have been posted here (these have been reopened so that you may read other people's opinions too, but closed so that all conversation can be kept here):
http://support.peopleperhour.com/entries/70969108-What-is-the-Selected-Seller-feature-
http://support.peopleperhour.com/entries/72905187-Job-available-to-selected-sellers-
http://support.peopleperhour.com/entries/74217646-I-Not-able-to-bid-on-projects
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