New system aimed primarily at matching newer sellers with buyers
So now it seems I have to wait two hours before I can bid for a job. This is extremely unfair. Not only do experienced creatives/designers have to compete with an unfair playing field, ie people offered to do a job for £10 when it is clearly worth £100, we are now not allowed to bid for jobs as soon as they appear on PPH. What kind of system is this?!
Awful. Unfair. Unprofessional. Discriminatory.
Regards
C. Howe
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@Graeme
Too true.
I gave up on these wasters. Had an idiot on the other week. No Budget, but wanted something similar to Xero, but with less features.
So being a bit logical, and being aware of what Xero does etc. I did some additional research and the man who initially invested in Xero put in about £1.4 million, then a couple of years later about £14million...then another large sum.
Anyway, when I was speaking to this 'buyer/potential client' on the phone, I asked him a general budget he had in mind....
When he said about 250....I am thinking £250,000!! At which point I said I was so pleased to find someone with a decent 'starting budget'
As I am told him most of the idiots on PPH want a 'new ebay for £300'!!! I then told about the sums invested in Xero.
At that point he clarified his budget as £250!!!
I pointed out he was wasting my time and put the phone down!! Followed by a few expletives!
Just another point, I totally understand PPH Hourlies idea and the DeskMonkey/Donkie/Taster whatever it is called.
But the fundamental issue with it, is that for things like
Magento Re-development
SEO Reviews
They are sufficiently complex to actually need more than one hour, or a few hours.
Magento is a multi-layered e commerce solution, that may take 3 hours to find the issue, when the buyer has £30 budget, and you haven't even found the issue let alone fixed it. You end up earning say £5 per hour!!
I would earn more at McDonalds.
With SEO - someone wants to buy lots of links - total waste of time. As Google may have put a 'Manual Action' on the site already. Or the site may already have 100/1000's of bad back links. So to buy more will put the client in worse position, not a better one!!
Now if there is a Manual Action it could take 5 or 6 weeks to work through the list of back links, work out the bad ones, send emails to those linking websites, then formulate a submission to Google.
And apart from the fact that buying back links is breaking Google's T&Cs....Potential clients are being robbed by these Hourlies offering
'Quick fix - 4million back links for £5'
Therefore PPH/Cheap Tasker/Monkey/Donkey with Hourlies is just perpetuating bad practice, within the SEO area.
Leading to Client dissatisfaction. Due to the fact that some 'Professional SEO Experts' will continue to peddle these bad practices to earn £5
Eventually I believe these advertised practices will be picked up by Google, and looked at, leading to the sites that facilitate the selling of such solutions, being removed from search rankings.
Sorry rant over.
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I think I recognise the "Xero clone" buyer - he came up earlier in this thread because he kept spamming PPH with variations on that job.
Bug fixing jobs are a gamble: if you are lucky enough to find it fast you get an excellent rate, but if it takes a long time its terrible.
I agree about cheap SEO, but its rife everywhere, not just PPH.
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@Paul, I understand where you are coming from. As a DeskDonkie Freelancer, I would like to see jobs, however, I have never had one.
The regular PPH system has thrown a wheel as I get offers for work so left of field, they are not even in the same industry. My earnings have dropped 90% in the last 6 weeks alone.
It does need sorting.
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Let's see ... IF PPH kills the value of the site, and makes new freelancers jump though hoops to get in (via certification and proof od skills) and does the same for freelancers that are inactive for six months .... won't that kill the supply of freelancers for DeskDonkie or SueperSluts or whatever they call it now.
I think SuperSluts business model is dependent on getting high ranked freelancers. And they draw that pool from PPH. Well ... if the well runs dry, where are they going to get replacements as natural attrition takes freelancers from SuperSluts.
I think they need PPH to be healthy in order to source from. All these problems ... looks bad for both business models.
Eric
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@Everyone - So this new 'knobjockey.com' website - only wants high ranking PPH suppliers?
That is interesting, on the presumption that high ranking PPH suppliers are truely professional. What can they offer punters in 10 minutes? And deliver it 10 Minutes after it is bought?!?!?!?
Surely professional people would already be working?
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@eric - I think the vetting people is intended to increase the quality of the available pool. It's better to have a smaller pool of freelancers that are able, than have a large pool where the low quality freelancers drown out the more able one s and push down job values.
@rob - Surely professional people would already be working? That sounds like a bit of a swipe at us all!
I don't think DeskDonkie or whatever it is has a ten minutes anything. Does it?
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@Rob - this is the case as I understand it. The new website (loving all the colourful names) is cherry-picking its freelancers from PPH based on their CERT and assuming that they will fall over themselves to participate. Then when jobs come in they will be allocated to a freelancer, who will be expected to jump to it and get the job done on PPH's terms. In my view the major flaw in this is the attitude towards freelancers. PPH/ST/DD wants to control us like we are employees. They want to recruit who they want to recruit, and to then keep us at their beck and call. As we all know, that is not how freelancing works.
PPH/ST/DD needs to release its vice-like grip on control of the site and to trust and respect its freelancers. A much better model in my view is one that respects and nurtures its freelance community. It needs to understand that freelancers will have varying availability and that they will want control over which jobs they take on.
What we definitely don't want, is some hideous form of employment where we are handed work by our PPH overlords and expected to drop everything and get it done right then, regardless of whether or not that is convenient, or whether we have work from other sources that we need to complete first. The only way I can see the sort of system that ST/DD proposes working, is if freelancers clock in as being available and then stay on call for an agreed period of time. And all of this presumably for no retainer and only on the off-chance that we might get sent a job.
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I often work for design agencies - mostly as a 'filler' when they have too much work or when they just don't have the expertise. They ring me up or send me an email and we chat and if the price is right and I have time, I get the job. If I'm busy or the budget is too low for what they want, I pass and they call someone else with no hard feelings.
DeskDonkie is an authoritarian factory approach to this kind of relationship. It reminds me of Amazon Turk and unlike my relationship with design agencies, it sounds like a really bleak way to work.
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@Paul - It is a swipe at punters who think professionals can achieve anything in 10 minutes and for $5 !! Or from SEO point of view, 100 million back links in 10 minutes for $2.5!!!
My limited understanding is with knobjockey.com is that punter wants 'World Peace'....Supplier offers 'World Peace for $10 in ten minutes.'
Sarcasm aside, delivering small titbits for peanuts in shortest amount of time.
@Rebecca - Come the Revolution :)
This is why I refused to take part.
1) Christophelopopopdus - Refused to answer emails regarding my fees for him asking me:
a) Business Analyts question
b) Business Development questionsc) Got annoyed when I did sign up and refused to offer 'Back Linking' @ 100 million back links for $1.25 - Have you noticed when annoyed I love exaggeration to show a point :)
On the basis that only 'f@@kWits' would do such a thing, either from a buying or selling point of view.
d) The same guy from PPH appeared to be annoyed when I couldn't give 'fix prices' without 27.5 conditions. How can I offer to fix or mend or improve something when I don't know what went before??!?!?!?!?
Needless to say I haven't had anything from DD/StupidTasker.com/whatever.com since it launched...or hasn't it launched?
Freelancer is about choosing (oh I should be so lucky) who you work for...nay work with. When/how and for how much!!!
The trouble is and this is a non exagerated fact.
PPH wants everyone to do Hourlies only.
PPH does not want freelancers to build a client base through communication. - This was all stopped when Punters complained of Asian Spammers - -simple solution ban them.I would love to know how many Freelancers have left/become inactive since the migration to the sh1te layout and Hourlies.
I totally understand PPH profits have gone up, mainly because they never had any, and the fees are higher!!
I still think a clone of the old PPH would be a good idea. Might limit the market place but get punters to deposit money before they complete a 'project posting'
But for that, we the People's Front of Freelancing.com would vet all Freelancers and not allow anyone we don't like.
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This is all very interesting. Perhaps people might like to contact me via info@brightgreenpr.co.uk
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I had the same problem this morning yet could raise an invoice back. The email I got back said;
" I'm very sorry to hear this. Unfortunately, this is the result with major changes we've made to the payment system. The changes are aimed at making payments more streamlined, and improving your user experience, but as result you will have to add your payment details once more as we no longer have them on record"
Once again a major change that we aren't informed about an what kind of system updates and deletes such important info. Another nail in the coffin of PPH......
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I had to re-enter my bank details in order to withdraw funds from my PPH wallet today. I was surprised since they have had my details in the past and I have been able to make withdrawals fine up until today. I gave them my PayPal details and will just have to accept the extra transaction fee - at this stage I don't feel comfortable giving them my bank details again. I'm glad I didn't get asked for my passport details or I would have completely lost the plot!
What the hell are they doing??
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One thing to note, DeskDonkie is registered in the US (New York in fact). So ... it seems you brits are ok to be the lackies of us in the US. ...
I'm curious about this because I search for US buyers on PPH, there aren't that may. So why target the US with this new venture? The whole thing seems ill conceived.
What surprises me most is that ALL the freelance sites are run the same way. All authoritarian with lots of spin (you know phrases like "to improve user experience"). What "user" wants to "experience" sending in their passport data.
I don't think this command and control structure gives them enough feedback to really bond with any freelancer. Today I got the latest promotional email ... "Meet the new PPH Freelancers."
Did they get in after the ten point drug panel, hair follicle, DNA test and anal probe?
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Am I reading this right. Everyone is unable to release funds to their bank account because details have been lost?Passports are required? Is this for new freelancers or for everyone and why? I actually don't have a passport as a result of adoption / birth certificates / adoption certificates / marriage etc I cannot prove myself to be the same person with three different surnames - but that's another problem. Anyway, is this right?
No communication from yourselves, pph???? I thought you would have learnt your lesson and at least informed us. In fact if you've lost our banking details, that is the least you could do. Issue a statement - in the interest of internet security regarding banking I would have said it was vital.
These systems do not need changing unless you have a hidden agenda. Can't we go back to the good old days when the tried and tested formula worked - job posted, receive offers, sift through those offers and choose a supplier based on our decision on costs, experience, reviews and timeframe. Sounds simple, doesn't it????
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I raised a support ticket about this financial details issue, and got this response:
"We have updated our payments system for user's better experience. Hence you have been asked to submit your details. Thank you very much."
So it would appear that it's not that the details are "lost" as such, but because a new payment system has been introduced (I think it's something to do with quick transfers), financial details need to be re-entered.
I have no problem with that. No problem with a system change, or having to re-enter details. What I do have a big problem with is that no one at PPH thought it might be a good idea to TELL users this was happening! That we had to just discover it when we went to make a withdrawal. From our end, it looked like a glitch, or even a hacking attempt. So unprofessional, particularly with financial details, and coming so soon after their response in this thread about improving customer communication.
I don't know about the passport thing. I wasn't asked for this when I made a withdrawal earlier today, but I haven't raised an invoice for a day or so.
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I believe the change in the payment system also allows the introduction of Skrill, a system used widely in the Asian Sub-continent on other Freelancer sites.
One now might expect a flood of cheap proposals like you see on other sites from China, Asia, Indian sub-continent.
The only result will be poorer earnings for those IT Freelancers in the UK etc, who simply cannot compete against someone who can get by on a 20th of UK earnings
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@ Emily, they NEVER gives us a heads up as to what is happening, the 2 window fiasco proved that! They can bombard us with emails telling us we have been 'selected' to apply for jobs we aren't capable for yet can't spend a few minutes putting together a blanket email to keep us informed of any changes, I only resubmitted by bank details as I needed to withdraw my wage, of which they took a hefty chunk obviously, to pay my rent. As I said earlier, what kind of system updates and details members details in the process.
@ Consultopia Law unfortunately those flood gates have already been opened since Skrill was introduced several months ago and I am being invited to bid on jobs with a budget of $5 per hour :( Sadly it looks as if the one decent site for British freelancers is going the way of all the rest..........
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I respectfully ask PPH....what the hell is happening with all the unnecessary chaos that ensued over the last few months?
I have worked my ass off for the past 3+yrs building a reputable profile and a satisfied client base. Finally, on the verge of crossing the CERT5 threshold with a steady stream of work every week, my workflow has completely dried up and instead I am bombarded with Proposal selections for jobs that bear no relevance to my skill-sets whatsoever, i.e I am a CAD Designer and I am getting invites for;
Cartoon styled cart game
An expert game developer
Machinist/seamstress
textile print designer
In addition to this I am getting selected to bid first for jobs that dont apply to me and denied access to ones that do?
Another addition is Increase your chances with a personalised video which to me implies self-promotion! which is perfectly fine....Why then, does offering a potential client to view a portfolio of your work (relating to that job) result in removal and penalties to the bidding freelancer? Self-promotion is a necessity for a freelancer and these rules contravene what is represented.
I thought the CERT system was bad enough but all these mental algorithms being introduced put that to shame.
Please act on these obvious defects and just look at all the message relating to this.
Cheers
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