New system aimed primarily at matching newer sellers with buyers
So now it seems I have to wait two hours before I can bid for a job. This is extremely unfair. Not only do experienced creatives/designers have to compete with an unfair playing field, ie people offered to do a job for £10 when it is clearly worth £100, we are now not allowed to bid for jobs as soon as they appear on PPH. What kind of system is this?!
Awful. Unfair. Unprofessional. Discriminatory.
Regards
C. Howe
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Sorry James, my mistake, I've just seen your post above, don't know how I missed it. However i have to say that I disagree with a large part of what you've said.
No offence to anyone intended at all, but if PPH (in this case Michael) are genuinely trying to look at the issues we've reported, then shouldn't we try to help? We'd be helping ourselves too, of course.
I would like to point out that IF PPH had LISTENED in the FIRST PLACE, then they wouldn't be in this situation now. A number of people on here, have been 'trying to help' for the past few months.
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James is right.
Michael can't change what's happened previously. Let's draw a line, do things his way, start a new chapter and see what happens. Positive thinking and all that. Just imagine how great it would be if PPH turned into a hassle free experience.
However Michael needs to be aware that people haven't forgotten past experiences, and if it starts turning into same old same old, they'll be quick to see the signs and that'll be the end of the honeymoon.
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@ Paul - my gut feeling is that you're right, and if that's the case it will very soon become apparent and I'm sure people won't be shy to call their bluff. But it would be good politics for users to play along so as to be seen to be trying to co-operate.
This thread has over a thousand posts, and let's face it, the standard of literacy inside PPH is not high and grasping what's being said to them has never been one of their strengths. If we give them a nice clean thread with simple suggestions and requests, all clearly explained in words of one, and they still do nothing, well at least they'll have to drop the pretence.
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@Malcolm
IF PPH had LISTENED in the FIRST PLACE, then they wouldn't be in this situation now. A number of people on here, have been 'trying to help' for the past few months.Ok, but what good does it do repeating this?
There comes a point when people can only say "this doesn't work" or "we toooold you" in so many ways and so many times. You have to sit back and wait, and eventually leave if nothing (good) happens.The points have been made both frequently and eloquently enough that if people keep going on about them now it's just moaning, or a witch hunt (as with finding past and external negativity towards PPH).
I know I'm new to these 2+ month old debates, but can see immediately why people (justifiably) have no faith in PPH, which unfortunately, and naturally, also means Michael as well, as he is here via PPH.
However, if everyone lynches Michael from the start as well, for other peoples mistakes including PPH's mistakes in general, and before he even has a chance to do anything, then we are literally giving up on anything PPH tries and are stating "whatever they do is pointless".
If so, we might as well log out right now and never return.@Paul
I would say that if PPH can't pick up from this thread the focus of people's unhappiness, then the cause is already lost.The fear of the cause being already lost is from previous poor features and actions by PPH, and while that is most understandable and reasonable, we need to give Michael a chance to do things his way.
Maybe it's PPH's last chance in some users' minds, maybe that chance is already gone (if so then I guess they've already left or given up).But people should choose to either give PPH/Michael this chance, or leave, or at least stop telling them why they're crap - what's the point if you have no faith they will resolve it?
The alternative is repeat the same things, and then PPH being able to "pick up from this thread the focus of people's unhappiness" becomes increasingly difficult with the additional noise repeating the same unhappiness.
If Michael wants a new thread, to make it easier to collate all issues without the discussions/noise, or for whatever reason, then let's adhere and try it, and hope it is not just an age old "fob off" method.
Let's not forget that Michael will have certain company protocols to adhere to the same as previous staff members. It doesn't mean he'll repeat the same mistakes or not be able to persuade staff further up the chain why they need to change their way of thinking.
If he's not aware of past mistakes, or he repeats them, we can then say "It failed - I told you so".
But, in 4 weeks time, we cannot state Michael was just another person who failed to deliver or resolve the issues, if we don't do as he requests now.*All eyes turn to Michael* (sorry mate..)
I am sure, and sincerely hope, PPH (and Michael) know they're likely on the verge of either a mass walk out, or steady decline in user base, thus losing good buyers/sellers for good.
And then PPH being another name on the internet as "failure" and "oooh, don't use them..", and thus no new members to replace the old ones.SUGGESTION (to Michael/PPH)
Instead of just rolling out new features which people end up hating, why not at the "idea stage" post in the public feature request area and see what feedback comes. Perhaps a new sub section "Posted by PPH".
Which would work even better if we could vote "a_gainst_" a feature, instead of how it is now with just an inaccurate representative of the general user base opinion as it's based solely on the number of those "in favour". -
@Pie
Alexa is interesting this month. Co-incidentally. Or pehaps not.
Don't think so, personally. That's quite a drop.
PPH definitely has the potential to be an excellent site, however whilst there is idiocy and incompetence at every turn, it doesn't stand a chance. However, with recent communication, watch this space........
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Trouble is Malcolm, it was an excellent site up to very recently, as proven by the figures Michael quoted and the graph. Problem is, what was excellent for PPH, was not excellent for freelancers because the success was built on freelancers being treated badly. Most of these 'idiotic and incompetent' ideas have increased profits and footfall, and the fact that these features make life a misery for freelancers doesn't bother them one button as long as the stats stay good. When the trend starts to reverse, it's time to reluctantly invest the bare minimum to get footfall and revenue back up, then back to plan A and new schemes to screw the freelancers and drive profits up. It's a cold calculating approach to customer care.
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@Pie
Problem is, what was excellent for PPH, was not excellent for freelancers because the success was built on freelancers being treated badly. Most of these 'idiotic and incompetent' ideas have increased profits and footfall, and the fact that these features make life a misery for freelancers doesn't bother them one button as long as the stats stay good. When the trend starts to reverse, it's time to reluctantly invest the bare minimum to get footfall and revenue back up, then back to plan A and new schemes to screw the freelancers and drive profits up. It's a cold calculating approach to customer care.
Boy, do I love your thinking :)
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Paul
I would say that if PPH can't pick up from this thread the focus of people's unhappiness, then the cause is already lost. I think the new thread is more about community management than a way forward to any improvement.
That's exactly what they're doing. Wipe out/distract from the written history of the poor service for PR reasons. That PR is the top priority ans customer service has become abundantly clear.
@James; your approach may be commendable but is rather unrealistic. "those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it". You're advocating that if complaints are ignored and problems not fixed we should "stop moaning" and put up with it. Essentially you're saying we should play into their PR game and pretend everything is just rosy when it is indeed "crap" to use your words. Meanwhile freelancers means of earning a living is under attack. I find myself wondering if you're one of the advocates that Micheal referred to.
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@Pie, I've just looked at Alexia!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
To add to the comments about starting [yet] another new thread to report issues, I've stayed subscribed to this thread precisely because I wish to track what is happening with the reported issues and to see if they're being addressed. If I can use it this way, why can PPH not do so, if they are in any way sincere about addressing problems?
Given the clunkiness of the so called forum, this thread will simply be lost to anyone not currently subscribed to it, so PPH will simply have brushed issues under the rug yet again.
How about this thread continues with PPH accurately using the information rather than hiding it? Who thinks all the people on this thread will return, find the link for the new thread among all these pages and repost their issue? 5% maybe? Thus PPH manages to wipe out 95% of the issues without addressing them simply by moving them to a new thread and the problems continue. Grinding people down is about as poor a method of customer service as ever existed.
Continuing this thread would be an excellent opportunity to show things being turned around and have people posting about things being resolved - IF PPH are sincere about addressing issues.
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@Dee
_your approach may be commendable but is rather unrealistic "those who ignore history are condemned to repeat it". _History has been pointed out that many times in this thread alone I don't think anyone could possibly ignore it.
So as per my previous point, I stated that everything that can be said has already been said, both eloquently and frequently, and stating these things over again is pointless and it's time to wait to see what happens.
"You're advocating that if complaints are ignored and problems not fixed we should "stop moaning" and put up with it."
I never said anything about anyone stopping moaning and simply putting up with anything.
I stated that it's pointless going on about it as it's all been said and reiterated enough now. As such, I said in the event of nothing good coming from Michael or PPH, our choice is to leave (otherwise you will be choosing to put up with it)."I find myself wondering if you're one of the advocates that Micheal referred to."
I am not affiliated with PPH in any way, I do not know Michael, or even what he has planned (although I feel perhaps I (we) should by now..).
Don't you think it would a bit obvious?
Besides, I'm not exactly on their side, as I've said clearly if they cannot deliver the goods and resolve things as we all want this time around and soon, there will be a mass walk out, and that people should leave.
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@Michael
Here's one for you then, nice and simple (I don't know if others have noticed this), but in the My Favourite Jobs section, even if it is sorted by 'Latest' jobs, it doesn't appear to be. (i've just checked this by confirming the dates that the jobs were posted). Closed jobs are appearing BEFORE the open ones. Unless I've misunderstood what the word 'Latest' means? (Maybe I need to go back to English class :( )
I am assuming the word 'Latest' means most recent first???
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I actually see no point in telling PPH about the errors on the site. We all know it has lots of errors, but it functions 'well enough' to be usable.
PPH could engage a small number of people to test the site functionality and really get these errors out in the open and fix them. Many years ago I worked in a development team where broadly speaking the software worked and was usable. As developers we knew there would be a fair number of bugs and we were the worst people to be testing the system (we knew how it worked and always took the easiest route through the software).
Our client sent a small but steady stream of bug reports and we would fix them, but we weren't happy that management wanted us to test this complex system ourselves. Eventually we got them to agree to engage some software testers.
Management were shocked. The testers found over 250 bugs. We fixed them all over the course of about three weeks.
This is what PPH should be doing. We should only be talking about fundamental issues in the system (such as skills matching) rather than mundane bugs.
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Well, the basic functionality of the site allows me to do what I need to do. Now and again I try and do some things that don't work. It's a funky site on an iPad. So I get by.
If my skills filter broke down, that would be serious. So far I haven't had a problem.
So for me, the site is perfectly usable but not as it should be.
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some of the 'bugs' you refer to, actually put me off using the site a bit.
Look at the big picture. Nothing in life is perfect. PPH helps me make money and the hassles don't outweigh the advantages at the moment.
I can live with the bugs and the frustration level isn't high enough to quit the site (or more accurately, the income from PPH mitigates the frustration).
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The issue for me is that all these functionality issues stay unaddressed year after year while PPH plays about with lots of things that don't enhance the user experience one bit. So every time site says no, it rubs users' noses yet again in the fact that their 'experience' on the site is right at the bottom of PPH's list of priorities, in fact I don't think it's even on the list at all. If you use other websites PPH compares so badly to other organisations who have an agenda of making their websites user friendly and actually seem to take pride in giving users a positive experience. It's like the difference between being served by a sulky sullen checkout operator and a friendly smiley one, they both do the job but one is a feel good experience and the other isn't.
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This may seem an odd question, but out of interest, how does everyone keep track of new jobs that come onto the system? Do people religiously keep checking EVERY hour without fail? Given the fact that buyers are supposed to either make decisions very quickly or not at all. There are the email nofiications, but I don't think they are totally reliable.
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Hi guys,
Sorry, I didn't read this whole thread as it's a bit extensive...but I would like add that as a completely new addition to this site, I myself cannot bid for jobs either...so it seems to me like something else must be going wrong as I am getting the exact same response as most of you, when trying to apply for a job that I have skills for. What I don't understand, why PPH team isn't doing anything about this as it seems to be a long term issue...
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