New system aimed primarily at matching newer sellers with buyers
So now it seems I have to wait two hours before I can bid for a job. This is extremely unfair. Not only do experienced creatives/designers have to compete with an unfair playing field, ie people offered to do a job for £10 when it is clearly worth £100, we are now not allowed to bid for jobs as soon as they appear on PPH. What kind of system is this?!
Awful. Unfair. Unprofessional. Discriminatory.
Regards
C. Howe
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Mmm.... Moira, your sort of half right, but not completely there.
The maths on this one is a bit complex, so I'll say this (refer back to my last post):
Forget the 'sellers'. Forget the 'buyers'. Forget the mix of 'buyers AND sellers'.
What's important are the JOBS, and what's even more important are the SUCCESSFUL jobs. They are the ones that give you the £100 bottles of wine, champagne, bugatti's, penthouse etc etc.
I have only been on this site for less than a year (I think), so I don't know previous years figures.
Have the number of jobs on the site DECREASED as the years have gone by? This will tell you how successful the site is. Any site can boast to their hearts content about the number of registered users they have, but it isn't a TRUE picture, and can be far from it.
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@Malcolm This maybe a stupid question, but critical about what exactly?
It's so long ago I don't remember. I was certainly the odd one out at that hang-out and it felt a bit odd. I could tell people were actually pleased with Xenios. There's always been plenty to complain about when it comes to PPH.
I think it started going downhill when they went from different membership plans to commission percentages and we had an awful website revamp.
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It looks like PPH is trying to raise seller quality.
I do believe that's what they think they're doing, but - telling people to make selfie videos, insisting on random bits of 'evidence' that it's well beyond their competence to check whether it's genuine or forged - fraudsters won't miss a beat, they'll see it as a challenge and come up with whatever is asked for, a reference signed by Albert Einstein himself if that's what PPH specify. It's the honest people who will find it hard to prove their credentials and will write hopelessly to support saying 'But Albert Einstein's dead, and I never worked for him in any case, how am I supposed to get a reference from him?'. And then there's the problem that a lot of registered sellers don't do all the jobs they win themselves, they outsource work and PPH doesn't even know who's doing it.
There has to be a better way but the trouble is that the whole business is built on smoke and mirrors and spin, so suddenly trying to insist on genuineness is a bit of a leap to take.
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@Dee
Why the continued insults in your responses to my posts? I've always been civil and constructive in my replies to you, even if we disagreed.
In fact, most of the time I had to defend myself from your speculative name throwing, and unjustified accusations from your lack of understanding of my points, which only you seem to misunderstand, and still throw names around.You seem to be very against me, which is perhaps because I don't agree with you.
You were fine when people were agreeing with you in other pages of this thread. Some people were writing "great long essays" in response to you, and you back to them, but I guess that's ok and you could be bothered to read those because they agreed with you, and they were all about "your" point of view.I took the time to explain a bit better what I meant, because my intentions were for the greater good. But again your response was a cheap attack simply stating I'm telling you all to shut up - even though I replied back clearly stating that is not what I meant.
You could have just stated you might have missed my point, or I was not being clear enough, but you instead insist on throwing insults about me, perhaps thinking it's clever, perhaps you'll get a giggle from your fellow chums.
So far you have said I:Write humongous posts.
Write noise.
I have hyperbole.
Everything I said appears to "have been fished out of his preverbial". (It's "proverbial", btw)
My approach is unrealistic.
I may be one of the advocates that Michael referred to.
I am just telling everyone to shut up.
Bored with his posts already.And so on...
Not really constructive feedback or debating is it? Not very good as part of a team of users trying to get things changed, and certainly not in the best interests for the team's efforts to get PPH giving us all some credit in our ability and intellect to show we know what changes would be beneficial to the site.
Instead of "Oh, look at those idiots bicker..."You say what you want, with insults, and unnecessary name calling and speculation, but it's posts like yours which stop PPH from seeing this as constructive feedback and instead just see 15 pages of bllsh1t-moaning, without anything good in it.
I came here with as much right as you to complain about the issues I faced in PPH. What gives you the right to tell me I am full of sh1t?
You just didn't care to understand my post, and return back to your first and single thought that I'm telling everyone to shut up and lump it.My suggestion was valid - post your issues in the other thread so there is a case by case listing of all issues, constructive, and easy to see each one without being surrounded with noise and discussing it all. Then wait to see what happens. give Michael a bit of time to catch up etc.
Continue to discuss in this one fine, Michael can ignore that, then any debates of new issues in here can be filtered to the new thread as a single post constructively and with facts only."If I can use this thread this way, why can PPH not do so, if they are in any way sincere about addressing problems?"
So you want Michael and PPH to fix things, but YOUR way huh? You wont post in that other thread because-you-don't-want-to. Because you feel he should rake through 15 pages of noise and spend his day picking out constructive feedback from the moaning!You are not helping yourselves!
So far, there's one post in that other thread. Not really helping Michael in his cause are we?"Someone who spends that so many words advising others to shut up really... bored already with his hyperbole."
For the 3rd time Dee, I never said "shut up and put up with it", nothing of the sort! You clearly didn't understand my post, and have it in your head I was suggesting everyone shuts up. So now, like a dog with a bone, you won't let it go, wont change your opinion, you are of course right :rollseyes:"Based on everything else he's said, it appears to have been fished out of his preverbial..."
This is not helping us all towards PPH seeing this thread as constructive and deserving of some attention!I can see there's a gang of "buddies" here, all nattering away to each other. Perhaps they are laughing at Dee's comments, regardless of them being non-constructive. I'll step back here, and let you and your chums moan about it all for another 10 pages, until Michael gives you some treaties and you will be all happy again.
Whatever Michael is going to do, he is already going to do, no more moaning will change that. -
As for the stats of PPH having 450,000 members, I got it from a blog post from PPH. Seems that was wrong, or it has changed since then. I tried searching other places but found no data.
I was just trying to put some facts and figures on what Dee said, as otherwise it was just speculation. -
James,
[Michael] should rake through 15 pages of noise and spend his day picking out constructive feedback from the moaning!
Absolutely. He should be picking up the 'pain points' as a matter of routine. We've done this task before, generated hundreds of constructive suggestions that PPH filed in the trashcan.
So far, there's one post in that other thread. Not really helping Michael in his cause are we?
Michael's cause is as much about community management as anything else. I have no interest in supporting a diversionary tactic I have seen used by PPH community managers before.I can see there's a gang of "buddies" here,
It always happens in communities. It's not a pre-requisite to buddy up to anyone.
I "know' a few people here from way back in PPHs distance past. What we have in common is that we've seen this stuff coming from PPH before. Several of us have enough other real world experience to know that PPH can do things a lot better even if they don't do what we think they should do.
Whatever Michael is going to do, he is already going to do, no more moaning will change that
Entirely true.
Think of this thread as a place to express frustration knowing you aren't alone. It's never a great idea to make things personal, whatever the provocation. Makes the place seem like a schoolyard.
We had one community manager that really did seem in a position to do something and he did begin to win the community around a bit. It was at the time of the website revamp. We complained about the revamp, he listened. And listened. And then disappeared off to American Express. It seems he had been largely responsible for the website revamp and kept quiet about it.
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**Think of this thread as a place to express frustration knowing you aren't alone. **Precisely!
There can be (and often is), a psychological release (for want of another way of putting it), when you are able to discuss issues and realise that it ISN'T just you, and in fact that other people are experiencing the same problems. This can, and often does, make a BIG difference. Without meeting up face to face with people, if it wasn't for forums like this, none of us would ever know. And we would potentially keep questioning our own judgement (I'm sure we've all been there).
Whilst I agree to a certain extent, and see where James is coming from (even if, in some places, his comments could be looked at by some people as possibly being a little on the rude side (no offence intended James) ), especially where he refers to the 'noise' on this thread, in some ways, I feel that James can hardly blame us.
In fact, I would extend my comments to say that PPH have partially caused all this, due to their actions, or lack of perhaps.
On a side note, it might be an idea for PPH to introduce emoticons, to enable users to be able to express their emotions in a better way???? Maybe even introduce 'likes'?
And, please, please, please..... I'm not suggesting everyone writes novels, but make the comments box bigger!
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Now this, in my opinion, is exactly how it should be done:
http://blog.peopleperhour.com/blogroll/rename-express-jobs-auto-assign/
I'm a bit stunned to be honest. All I would say it, maybe do it somewhere where more people will see it.
Well done Christos, please continue.
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No I didn't mean I like the concept - but I like the fact that Christos is saying 'we've made this change, what do you think'. Though of course, 'we're considering making this change, what do you think' would be even better :)
The concept itself I don't see any need for on PPH since I thought that was exactly what DeskDonkie is for, or maybe they've given up on DD and want to use the feature inside PPH rather than abandon the whole thing.
And thinking about it, I have seen posts by very cross buyers saying 'why has this freelancer been imposed on me, why wasn't I allowed to choose, I don't want this person' so maybe, yet again, it's a case of buyers' complaints are taken seriously but sellers' complaints aren't.
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Two further thoughts:
Probably getting my wires crossed, but just been looking through my profile, and I thought that Michael was supposed to have added tickey box options for email notifications or something, but cannot seem to see anything???
I did ask this several comments ago, but due to further comments since then, my question got lost, so to speak.
How does everyone keep tabs on jobs on here? Is it literally a case of popping back to the website every hour or two? Due to various reasons I find it difficult to keep checking back, and sometimes even forget to. Pity there wasn't an RSS option for jobs. That would have been brill. I realise of course that most people probably aren't bothered with this much due to recent events, and the way the site seems to be going.
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believe that PPH don't show any of the proposals to the client for two hours anyway
Unless i's changed PPH holds up non-featured proposals and only emails the buyer at the end of the day. They notify the buyer by email immediately if it's featured. the buyer sees all proposals if they check via the website.
That's how it used to work, at least.
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@James -
I accept that you find these insulting and take responsibility for posting them.
"I have hyperbole."
"Everything I said appears to "have been fished out of his preverbial". (It's "proverbial", btw)" - Thank you, Get an edit function added and I'll be happy to correct my posts.
"Bored with his posts already."
The following however were direct responses to your own comments, if you find them so offensive then you should have some idea why they got a negative response.
"Write humongous posts." - You have criticised the nature of posts and amount of chit chat type posts on this thread yet you're doing the same thing, Personally I've no objects to long posts.
"Write noise" - "Noise" was your description, if you find it insulting, why inflict it on posters?
"My approach is unrealistic." - I've no idea why you consider this an insult, but it is my opinion.
"I may be one of the advocates that Michael referred to" - I've no idea why you consider this an insult.
"I am just telling everyone to shut up" - That's how your post comes across."If I can use this thread this way, why can PPH not do so, if they are in any way sincere about addressing problems?"
So you want Michael and PPH to fix things, but YOUR way huh?Not at all, my point was that the information is both available and usable if they genuinely wish to do so and further more that I know this to be true from first hand experience. THAT was the point being made and the point stated, I said nothing about how they should fix things.
For the record, this isn't about "chums", I know you as well [or not] as I know everyone and anyone else on this thread. There just happens to be a number of people on the thread who recognise PR speak and have heard it from PPH elsewhere, therefore are less impressed with it than you appeared to be.
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@Pie - I haven't challenged James' right to have or post an opinion. Why have both comments on "rights to opinions", come paired with telling others what they should or shouldn't post? James chose to write a novel to me and I chose to respond. Am I getting in the way of your Ms Brown conversation? Perhaps you regard Ms Brown's intentions as a more appropriate topic? Good luck to you if that's the case, but telling me to "give it a rest", for responding to a post hardly fits the Netiquette model.
Is there something in the air that has people criticising particular behaviors while simultaneously carrying them out?
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@Paul, I've not had one, but I'm not a good example as I'm shut out of the system - i.e. I've not agreed to have my face plastered over the net.
On a second note, en route to this page I noticed a post from Michael from back in June, coupled with another post from Kelly stating the thread was being monitored and those who [continue to] break the T & C will be excluded from PPH. So assuming it's the same Michael, he has indeed been here through the major portion, if not all of, the creation on this thread.
Pretty much supports my belief that asking us to move any complaints to a newly created thread is just another means of distracting from the list of unresolved complaints.
Sorry Michael, but it isn't creating any confidence in PPH. I was accepted here on PPH, did a couple of jobs, for which clients paid, at which point my money was withheld by PPH as a coercive measure to demand information they had not previously requested or indicated was required. Money that clients had paid in good faith, through the PPH system, for work completed. Now, having ignored the complaints on this thread for 4 or 5 months you're suddenly suggesting we drop the whole thread and begin a new one. If 14 pages of your clients telling you it isn't working hasn't encouraged a sincere attempt to address the concerns, how will a tiny percentage of the posters posting the same information on a new thread change anything other than render this thread inactive?
The must be others like me who are keeping an eye on things here in the hope things will be improved enough to make it worth while seeking work here again, but the apparent indifference of PPH isn't at all encouraging.
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