Protecting sellers from dangerous buyers
I am sure every seller on here has had an issue with a buyer at some time or other, as that is just business. With the new(ish) dispute system in place, there is a set out way to deal with disputes but they can be very costly.
Regular disputes are inevitable, but I have had a pattern of issues of late that really need to be addressed:
Firstly, there is an issue that is prevalent amongst the female freelancers on this site and I have spoken to a few women about it already. Women are targeted as prey on this site, whether it's because they're seen as weak, or just objects. I've had a few unfortunate cases where a man has hired me, not because of my skills, but because he wants to consistently have an excuse to talk to me to try and develop the working relationship into something more. Once I make it clear that this is nothing but business, he gets nasty. There have been two cases already where the police have had to intervene and this is not good. What can be done about it?
I know one lady represents herself as a man so it does not happen, but I don't want to be dishonest about who I am and more to the point... I shouldn't have to! So, what can PPH do to protect this kind of thing happening?Secondly, there appears to be a trend of buyers trying to do the eBay scam on here. They put a portion of money into Escrow and get the buyer to do the complete work and then they say the work hasn't been done or it's not up to scratch despite it being exactly like they requested. They then ask for a refund or reject your invoice and even if you win the dispute and PPH can see that all the work has been done, you only get this portion that is in Escrow! We need to stop this happening and ask for the full amount to be put into Escrow. If they ask for the deposit to be reduced, there is usually something iffy going on. I have had 5 cases lately where they all asked for the deposit to be reduced and they all did the same thing. Completed the job, they approved and then they disappeared and they only had to pay 40% of the agreed fee. There must be a way to stop this happening!
Disputes: I have proposed this before, but the 10% fee should not be taken out of the seller's fee automatically... it should be charged to the losing party when it is clear cut. For example, if someone is deliberately trying not to pay when the seller has clearly done the work, then they should be punished for this. Obviously many people have a difference in opinion, so in this case, it is different, but other clear-cut cases should be changed.
Quite often, when it goes to dispute, the seller will lose out in several ways and it really isn't fair.
Anyway, I would like to hear what people's thoughts are on these matters.
Sabrina
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Try having your account disabled after you threaten a buyer with legal action because less than 48 hours before you're due to deliver a training course in CHESTER and have booked car hire and accomodation, they tell you it's in LONDON. Quite apart from the difference in expected rates and associated costs it's just not feasible to expect someone to agree to such a massive change so close to the event - the result - lose 3 days earnings and actually have to pay for the other expenses - buyer (who has a fake name) thinks this is perfectly ok and PPH allow him to continue while disabling the sellers account who is now out of pocket on the expenses, out of pocket on the earnings having turned away other business and can no longer bill or work via PPH!
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Sorry to hear the issues you're having. I can completely understand having had 1-2 "bad eggs" from every 100 jobs I've worked on via PPH.
The items in your first message are frankly disturbing and I witnessed something similar through my girlfriend who is a graphic designer that I introduced to the PPH system. A recent purchaser of a logo design was seemingly finding almost any way he could to send messages over to her - which we both found a touch creepy.
In terms of clients who try to reject invoices, for digital work - remember that you hold the power with projects. With a good feedback record and a level of trust for your work, you should operate on the principles of requiring full payment at sign-off of your work and before the delivery of the digital project. For example, on websites we generally operate a 50% deposit and 50% final payment for projects up to £2000 in value. The final payment is paid after the client signs off the website and once payment is received, we then make the website live within one working day.
If you're finding that clients are rejecting invoices and you're giving them the finished work before they're paying the final invoice, try and see if there is a way that you can re-organise your methods so that you have the control that you really should have as a designer/digital content producer (not sure what you actually do but pretty much every skill can be covered by this).
With regards to disputes, honestly they can be a huge pain in the backside. The only time I've "lost out" on one was where some communication was over Skype instead of on the PPH message board.
Overall PPH is a great platform, when you can work with the right people. As I mentioned at the start there are a few bad eggs in every 100 people - and that's the same as life really. Yes someone can leave me a bad feedback that is totally unjustified, but whatever - life will go on.
I wish you all the best for the future and if you make sure you keep all documentation in the message stream on PPH, as well as understand their dispute procedure in full, you'll never lose another job when you're not at fault.
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It's a security issue, isn't it?
PPH now (6 July 2016) seems to have disabled the buyer profile so it's no longer possible to check out the potential buyer in any way.
PPH - if you're reading this (you do read all these questions and comments, don't you?) please tell us why you've disabled the buyer profile. What is your thinking behind it?
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Moira
I've just noticed that too! That's very odd that they would do that. I would also like to hear the explanation. Matt... unfortunately I think it is a much higher percentage than 1 or 2% that are "bad eggs", as you put it. Think about all the ones you avoid too, who are obviously bad news. But sometimes you cannot tell.
As a female, it is very difficult, because I have had a large number of men think it is OK to talk to me very inappropriately, or suggest that we discuss ideas over a bottle of wine and see where things lead... I am on here to work and I expect a professional relationship.
It is a shame that your girlfriend also experienced the same.
Regarding your deposit system, it might work for you, but there are plenty of people who simply will not do that. Plus, with PPH having the money in Escrow, it means you won't actually receive it until all the work is done. So, I have had many cases where they have all the completed product and then decide they won't pay.
Then, we have to have long-winded debates, go to dispute, waste lots of time and money and the outcome may not necessarily be fair. The buyer simply cannot lose out in those situations and that's what makes it dangerous. The buyer receives no penalty or risk for simply refusing to pay. That is what is not fair
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I understand they introduced that change on 6 July 2016 after receiving a number of complaints from buyers who've been bombarded by messages outside PPH after posting a job. They're going to test this change and adjust as required.
I don't feel very encouraged that this will benefit the seller at all although I can see how annoying it would be to be bombarded as a buyer.
I take my online security seriously. I don't want to (and am unlikely to) bid to a buyer completely blind. It's important to get a feel for a buyer before putting in a bid and this can only be done by looking at their profile. Bad reviews, bad feeling? I'm going to steer clear.
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