New Clearing Period and the Terms and Conditions
I am aware that PPH have introduced a change in the way in which freelancers are paid resulting in funds being unavailable for 14 days, after being paid by the buyer. I was also aware of an item in the Terms and Conditions stating that funds in a dormant account can be claimed by PPH so I decided to check the details. The terms and conditions document is not easy to find but eventually I did find it.
I would like to suggest that PPH either obey the terms and conditions and resume allowing freelancers access to their funds within 24 hours, or update the terms and conditions document to reflect current behaviour.
If PPH want to continue withholding funds for 14 days, can they clarify whether this is included in the 30 day dormancy period.
Here are the relevant paragraphs:
Funds
PPH IS NOT A BANK and only holds funds for the purposes of settling the provision of services and specific invoices of Freelancers. We strongly recommend that all users do not hold dormant balances on the platform. No user is permitted to hold a dormant balance on the platform for more than 30 days. PPH reserves the right to apply Admin Fees or write downs to dormant balances until they are withdrawn or become zeroed. Funds held by PPH on the platform are not insured nor covered by any Financial Services Compensation Scheme or any other government agency. PPH hold the funds in a separate client account.
Payments
PPH acts as an Agent of Payment between the Buyer and Freelancer. In return for full invoice payment by the Buyer for the project, PPH agrees to discharge the Buyers obligations relating to debts owed to the Freelancer under this agreement. PPH agrees to make such funds available to the Freelancer balance with 24 hours, subject to fraud an AML procedures. Freelancers are then able to withdraw those funds subject to the setting up of a valid withdrawal account. PPH takes its obligations to prevent fraud and money laundering seriously and reserves the right to delay payments to Freelancers if fraud or money laundering is suspected.All payments for work completed must go via PPH unless PPH has given its express written permission otherwise in relation to a specific payment or invoice; attempts to pay outside of PPH will lead to sanctions not limited to immediate account suspension. Users must immediately report to PPH any offers to pay outside of PPH made by their Buyer or Freelancer.
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Currently, I don't think anyone knows where the funds are held when the money is in a clearing process - all i can gather from the t&c's is that it is not protected.
We strongly recommend that all users do not hold balances on the platform. Funds held by PPH on the platform are not insured nor covered by any Financial Services Compensation Scheme or any other government agency.
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This is part of the point. The platform is not designed to hold other people's money. If it was, PPH would have to register with the FCA and our funds would be protected.
Personally I wouldn't really care about this, if I could have initiated a transfer of funds today, for the invoice I collected yesterday. It doesn't really matter if it takes a day, a week or a month to arrive in my bank account. Now I have a situation where PPH feel entitled to pocket the money if it isn't drawn out in 30 days, but I can't initiate the withdrawal. I had a situation with Upwork a while ago where I had a small amount of money in the account, no more work in the pipeline and it wasn't enough to justify an international transfer and eventually they just paid it into my bank account. As far as I'm aware from what I read on this forum PPH will simply take small amounts of money that is hanging in a freelancer's account. Upwork allow you to set a threshold at which point they automatically pay you, without having to be asked. PPH have no similar system. -
Their system is now a total joke, there was a time not long ago when I could withdraw funds instantly and often it would be in my account within 24 hours, so you know they're capable of it. They're also capable to processing their "rich" clients within 3 days, so again you know it's possible. This is as old as banks back in the day taking 14 days to clear a check, simply to hold funds and drive up interest in their account on your dime. With their fees at a whopping 25%, withdraws at at least 14 days this platform won't last long once people start drifting to other competitors.
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First the fees are extortionate and now introducing clearing periods....
I will be completing my current projects, taking the new 'rules' into consideration and then close my PPH account.
I have been on here for 2 years now and PPH has helped me start my business but their fees
First £250 earned with a Buyer (excl. VAT)20%
£250 - £5,000 earned with a Buyer7.5%
Over £5,000 earned with a Buyer3.5%and
clearing period
Clearing period is the amount of time it will take for us to do the necessary checks on the amount of money you have earned for fraud prevention purposes. Clearing periods are needed for us to protect you and your money from fraudulent criminal activity.
Standard clearing period is 14 days. Fast clearing period of 7 days given when the past two month earnings exceed £2,000. Express clearing period of 3 days given when past two month earnings exceed £6,000.now are detrimental to my cash flow.
Like PJ Dexter said it is to drive up their interest of the money they 'hold' during the clearance period, with no protection. I wonder if their new T and C's are within Financial Authority guidelines..... does any one have time to look into this?
The fee and clearance limits are way too high and too long. Over the past 2 years I have earned just over 3K, with 20 clients, so I will never get to the 7 or 3 days bracket. For most of my projects I am STILL paying 20%, som 7.5% but it looks like they are the crooks, earning money over our backs without doing anything......
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Agreed! This is ridiculous. Cant withdraw funds for 14 days. Then for processing they will take another 7 days? Means they will use our MONEY for 21 days & earn money on Interest on our MONEY?
Entire process is AUTOMated when money goes into their account
They are taking money from CLIENT & from developers . So project of £125 they take 20% from CLIENT & 20% from Developers so around 40% is earned by PPH which is way too much.
Client putting the funds in escrow is Automated
Funds getting deducted when client pays Automated
Funds are paid to developers Automated
Whe funds are further deducted when they transfer the money from devs to PAYPAL or any other one is Automated
>> EVERY thing is automated but only while releasing the money they are doing it manually. This is such a big platform and there is not even a single case of fraud as there is no chance then only while releasing the funds they are holding back giving an excuse about fraud.
Is there a way to reach out to them n stop?
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What annoys me is not necessary the new withdrawal process but, the omission of certain information and the contradictions. The new 14 days is a clearing period to withdraw so what is the time frame after that?
They say the following:-
"Clearing periods are needed for us to protect you and your money from fraudulent criminal activity"
Great I feel my money is being protected and understand the possible new checks they have to do but, then they say the following:-
"Clearing periods only limit the withdraw of funds from PeoplePerHour. Earnings are added to your available balance and can be spent within PeoplePerHour instantly"
So you can use unchecked money on their site for their gain? This just doesn't make any sense and I am confused and it's leading me to believe that this is not for our protection and cannot put my finger on what they are trying to get out of it as they will be forcing people off-site with this rule.
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@Marcus. I had a bit of success with Guru a few years ago, but I have not looked at it recently. There was never very much work for me and the notification system didn't work. I think they would send an email about a job a month after it was posted. I preferred the bidding system on PPH as well, because you get a sneaky look at the average bid by typing a 1 in the box and getting the warning that you haven't bid enough. It was the shortage of projects and the blind bidding that put me off Guru in the end, but I did get a very good hourly paid project that ran for a while.
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When you make a withdrawal, it still says it'll be processed within 48 hours. This is the second time they've delayed my payment. I'm seriously concerned about the financial security of PPH in general. Have noticed over recent months that the number of potential jobs has dropped dramatically.
Their systems and processes are antiquated when compared to sites like fiverr and upwork.
Have decided not do any more work through PPH unless clients pay me directly. I know this is in breach of their terms but so is holding my money for 14 days
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As a follow on, I very much doubt they are delaying payments to earn additional interest, with rates being so low.
My concern is that they are doing it to try and sort a cashflow issue - if they are sittting on everyone's earnings for 14 days now instead of 48 hours, in the very short term this will help with their cashflow.
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I use to work for an insurer that use to make insurance claimants wait 12 weeks for payments by sitting on funds and building interests. It is clear the reduced commission was to sweeten the deal but like Anita the worry is no one knows where the money is held and if you were preventing fraud you wouldnt allow spending onsite while you are doing checks. Likewise you would not check every invoice.
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@Simon. Yes I agree, PPH has been by far the best freelancer site I've come across. Can't believe they're trashing it this way. The only hope is it's a short-term cashflow issue they're trying to fix as Carl says which will allow them to revert back to 48hr sometime soon...just noticed they've put a mandatory acceptance of the new Ts&Cs in when any page opens.
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I notice the new Ts&Cs we have to accept now before proceeding contain a big contradiction. They still have the bit at the start that says funds are available within 24 hours, and then in the details later they add the new terms.
Regardless of the terms, they are lying to us about the reasons for this, and that is worrying. If the buyer is fraudulent, we need to know before we do any work, and it is too late once the work is completed and delivered and paid for. If we are fraudulent, we should have been checked the first time we withdrew money. This is too late in the project lifetime to be checking for fraud. If they are carrying out security checks they can tell us what they are.
I can't imagine it has anything to do with interest, because interest rates are too low to get excited about keeping money for 14 days. Do they have a cash flow problem? Is this a rush to grab as much money as possible before closing? Are they trying to make it more difficult to withdraw money so that they can seize funds from inactive accounts? None of these options are good, but it is difficult to see an explanation that is good.
I have a situation where I have more work to do from an existing client but I don't want to put any more money through PPH until I have at least been paid the cleared funds that I have requested to withdraw. I have a support ticket that hasn't been answered yet and there is no sign of any PPH staff on the forum. -
(Different Simon here by the way)
Upwork is my platform of choice right now. No issues with payment and tons of pretty decent jobs on it. I tried Guru but it was pretty hopeless. Freelancer is just full of scammers. I also have some gigs on Fiverr which won't make me rich, but they are easy money.
I am so disappointed with PPH right now. I am sure they will see an awful lot of people taking their regular clients off-platform because of the ridiculous new payment rules.
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Well done PPH you have done it again.
So its OK to use the held fees on PPH (fishy) But Im not allowed to withdraw MY earnings to my bank account? So it would be OK to rinse dodgy money through PPH?
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The rest cannot be withdrawn but you can still use them for your transactions through PPH site.
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So its OK to SPEND OUR money here on PPH... But we cant send it to our own account. Unbelievable.
So the money is safe to spend on PPH but might not be safe to send to our own bank accounts. Once again Unbelievable
I suggest you change this immediately otherwise you are going to loose so many people.
Very disappointing
So is PPH a bank investigating money laundering?
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Hi everyone, just wanted to add to what you are all saying and that I completely agree with you all. I am absolutely horrified that PPH have made this decision. When they raised the fees all those years ago I started working more and more off the platform, but then they brought in the same-day payment processing and this convinced me to come back. I cannot understand the reasoning behind this decision and am so disappointed. When the payment delays were happening recently I was told over and over again by PPH's customer service to 'bear with us' and that a new, improved payments process would be launched in the next few weeks. Then it turns out to be this 14 day nonsense. As freelancers we are always battling with cashflow and slow payment times and instead of doing what they are supposed to as an intermediary to make this whole process easier, they are doing the exact opposite. I really fail to see what we are paying them for.
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PPh obviously is not a bank but it receives and pay money. This means that money is hold in a bank account of the company, if not any of the employers could pay/be charged etc. All this process is based on an electronic transference which suppose a payer and a receiver. Worldwide it's the same. How could someone receive money other way if he do not have a bank account? This is clear. The same thing apply when PPH is paying us, money is transferred from their bank account to our payment method. Employers money and our money is kept in a bank account, this is a fact.
Let's be clear, maybe some 5% from the freelancers group is generating a 2.000 or 3.000 pounds average for every 2 months, the main part of us barely is making some hundreds per month. This policy is deeply affecting our resources. Now, if you will work some 4-5 days for a project must wait 20 days till be paid. This seems a bad joke.
This is really deceiving.
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PPH is an Escrow system which might work exactly like a bank. Bank takes our money & gives on interest. PPH will also do the same so extending period forcefully to 14 days cant withdraw. This is also called Money Market. All banks across the globe makes money by giving it on Interest.
But the worst part is exactly like Florin said. if we make few hundreds then no point waiting for 14 days for withdrawal & after withdrawal how much time we dont know & all this for 2 days work!
Its such a shame they doing all this in current scenario
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I think that could be some kind of a strategy. Will let this for a couple of weeks and maybe then they will change again this payment policy from 14 days to 8 or 10 days. People will not protest anymore even will be still too much delay and this way our previous 48 hours will be then a 10 days laps. Time will decide.
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Perhaps PPH has been hacked and are now negotiating over the ransom? Could explain all the typos in the Ts&Cs and why they're not talking to us...or is that a conspiracy theory too far?
Ha ha ha Marcus, no, not a ransom. They clearly see that hyperinflation is on its way because of COVID and they are making sure they can keep as much cash in their bank as possible for when the brown stinky stuff really hits the fan.
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