Extortionate buyer transaction fees
PPH terms and conditions state they do not charge buyers except for transaction fees, which have been raised from 1.9% to 5%.
This is outrageously high and is clearly is a stealth service charge, do PPH seriously expect us to believe their payment processing costs 5%?!? When even small businesses with low volume transactions have far lower fees than this!
PPH - please explain and justify this charge or risk losing buyers, alternatively as a suggestion find a lower cost payment processor!
-
Official comment
Many thanks for your suggestion. I will pass it on to our product team.
Please let me know if I can help you with anything else.***UPDATE*** 03/08/2017
Please accept our sincere apologies for the delay in replying to your message Myles, which was due to an unprecedented amount of ticket requests and for some reason not being able to see your message. We are working hard to provide each and every user with the appropriate attention.
It is my understanding that you are wondering about our recent rise in some of our fees. Please be advised that we recently updated part of our policies and services and a rise in some or our fees was necessary. As described in our Terms and Conditions, article 8.1 Buyer Fees:
[...] we may make changes to our transaction fees from time to time. These changes will be reflected in updated terms issued by us, which will apply to any transactions which take place after the updated fees come into force. [...]
Having said that, I understand how those changes can be inconvenient and sometimes distressing. Moving forward, you should consider using a bank transfer, which has no transaction fee at all.
Thank you for being patient. If you have any other inquiry please do not hesitate to contact me again.
Kind Regards,Comment actions -
Seconded - this is farrr too high PPH.
I am quite a frequent user of the service, exclusively as a buyer,
and have generally been happy with things.
But will now be far more selective as to what I purchase here.
I fear that this new measure will drive buyers elsewhere.
I myself nearly did not puchase, until a good natured Freelancer agreed to absorb the additional PPH charges.
-
Are you FREAKING kidding me!!!!!!!!!
I'd read that exact same statement and have often, over the years, reassured clients that there are no fees...
Previous comments are absolutely bang on, this is outrageous, and the statements made by PPH are completely FALSE.
I quote 'PPH do not charge a fee to the Buyer. PPH only pass on payment processing fees on deposit of funds'.
But you see, the internet is a wonderful place to find information. So, a quick visit over to stripe, an actual payment processor, who for european cards charge an exhorbitant £0.20p plus 1.4% and for non european cards £0.20p and 2.9%
This is in comparison to PPH's standard £0.60p and 5%.
Lets recap on what has just happened. In less than 30 seconds, I was able to find a payment processor that I can pretty much guarantee would have no issues with an application from PPH, which would enable PPH to pass on a massive saving to its buyers, especially considering PPH's apparent stance (PPH do not charge a fee to the buyer) that it doesn't make revenue from buyers, it only passes on payment costs.
So, here's my challenge to PPH. Change your payment processor to Stripe. Then send out a message to all your buyers that you have managed to save buyers £1,000s of unnecessary payment fees.
And if you're inclined, I'd be interested to know who the current payment processor is that is charging £0.60p + 5%
Worldpay: £0.20p 2.75%
Paypal: $0.30 + 2.9%
Due: 2.8%
Payline: $0.20 + 0.3%-0.5%
-
I have used PPH on several occasions over the past few years and always thought that this was a great service offering for both buyers and sellers. However, recently I have become aware of your 5% transactional fees. I think that this is an appalling amount to pass onto buyers, particularly when you claim not to charge buyers fees. Your invoices don't reflect this 'payment fee' either, this is misrepresentation and this isn't a true reflection of the service fees you are being charged by financial institutions. You should review the way you package and offer your services and costs.
-
I did not realise that the 'free' service for buyers is a misrepresentation.
I note the detailed comment of Sean and comparative fee offerings for transactions. In light of that detail, the 'Official comment' seems disingenuous to the point of being insulting to buyers' intelligence.
-
Come on today to ask just this question - which of my buyers are being charged fees? New ones, or ones that have been with me for years? Why is this charged on top of the fee that is also taken from me? I feel PPH have made plenty from me over the years. I've made it to the top 900 of all sellers because of the volume I've been putting through on a consistent basis, and now I feel the need to leave and look elsewhere for customers. I've been telling buyers that they pay what I quote and I take the hit fees-wise. This of course has now proven to be rubbish. Thanks PPH. That's really helped me build trust with my clients. Not
-
You could help everyone both buyers and sellers by running a business model that fair to both parties.
I run a small business myself and have in the past used pph services and freelancers many times over the years for a wide range of jobs and skill sets and encoutered very few problems - however I must admit that even for a non techie person like myself the system itself is very slow and clunky and the customer support to either parties seems to be virtually non existant.
I recently bought an hourlie for a quick job I needed doing but despite several messages to the seller recieved nothing ... no contact & no work , so after contacting the seller yet again to see what was happening I logged into the account today to see I had recieved a message that they where unable to do the work and had issued a refund.
On the face of it that seems fine... fair enough people get busy , stuff happens etc etc .... until you do the maths.
the cost of the hourlie was 10.00
the transaction charges to me [ this was despite the payment being via debit card/paypal ] where £1.10
I have now been charged a further 1.00 after the seller cancelled saying they where unable to do the hourlie so have been left with just £9.00
the cynic in me would think that the only people profiting from this kind of scenario would be pph !!
-
When I started using PPH fees were around 60p then 3%, then 5%
now a whopping 10% transaction fee, which is a disgrace.
(we only pass on costs) rubbish debit card transaction fees are around 0.25% to 0.35% in the UK.
I've spent over £13k on PPH and this is now the final straw and I will be looking for alternatives for freelances.
Consumer Rights (Payment Surcharges) Regulations 2012 for businesses.
Regulation 4 sets out the prohibition on above-cost payment surcharges: “A trader must not charge consumers, in respect of a given means of payment, fees that exceed the costs borne by the trader for the use of that means.” The clear policy objective is that payment surcharges should not be used by traders as a means to generate profit or margin. Therefore, traders should not require consumers to pay a surcharge fee for payment by a particular means that exceeds the cost directly charged to the trader for using that means of payment in any given transaction with the consumer. Underlying this is a principle that the trader’s profit or margin should be earned through the headline price of goods or services.
-
IS THIS THE DEATH OF PPH?
I've previously commented on this thread, and note that the original post observed that the transaction fees had been raised from 1.9% (comparable to Stripe's current average transaction rate) to 5% (greater than any other payment processor I could find).
As of today 28/6/17 that rate has increased again to 10%, as can be seen here at section 8.1 https://www.peopleperhour.com/static/terms
...with PPH still maintaining that: 'PPH do not charge a fee to the Buyer. PPH only pass on payment processing fees on deposit of funds'
Given all that has been shown on this thread, that not a single payment processor could be found with anything close to 5%, let alone 10%, AND given a recent post showing GOVERNMENT LEGISLATION that prohibits the profiteering by adding surcharges to method of payment above and beyond actual costs.
The time has come PPH to address this issue most urgently. It seems highly irregular and deserves an answer.
I have no option now but to follow up with every proposal to ask the reason for non acceptance. I suspect a great deal are going to be the addition of 10% to the bill in the knowledge that I as a seller am paying fees too.
-
So I still haven't heard anything from PPH about this.
PPH now use Adyen for taking payments.
Adyen charge
€ 0.10 transaction fee and upto 1.1% commission.
So PPH are making 52p on every transaction + 8.9% commission.I notice deposits are fee free by BACS. But I very much doubt PPH are following the rules on client money which legally has to held separate from the business balance sheet, which is why I don't trust holding money on account.
I look forward to PPH explaining this to Trading Standards.
-
Hi dave,
I have in the past, even sent a message to the founder on LInkedin about a similar fundamental issue to no avail.
I'm not in the habit of making assumptions, difficult when the communication channels with such a business are unbelievably difficult, but on matters like this, PPH's 'public affairs' staff should be on the ball and deal with such things with urgency and efficiency and I get the feeling that there isn't the level of expertise in place to recognise when that happens.
Given the legislation you posted, the subject of fees should be a top priority and more fool them if they don't react.
-
I totally agree. PPH should have nipped this in the bud.
The bottom line is;
Do PPH need to charge a 10% fee to buyers & 20% to sellers to stay in business? if so then the business model of PPH no longer works.
I hope it is a lack of understanding UK legislation & laws rather than greed.
It is very short sighted. A 10% charge will scare off customers especially as they will be on the ball with money - they are business owners after all.
No buyers - no PPH.
I can't help but feel the people running PPH haven't thought this through one bit.
-
*** I added the message below on Thursday 27th July but it was marked as spam and then deleted so I am re-posting it. I have been told that all posts are moderated by PPH staff, but it's hard to believe they're checking anything, otherwise they would SEE how angry people are and they would DO something about it. ***
Like all of you, I am stunned by the extortionate fees PPH is charging to both buyers and sellers, the way they're padding the payment fees (which some people are suggesting may be illegal?), the half-baked excuses PPH give for increasing the charges, and the standard "I will pass your comments on to the product team..." message from Kelly which appears regularly but which doesn't seem to achieve anything.
As a buyer, I was ready to proceed with a $5k job here recently, till I got to the very last page of the payment process and discovered a 10% surprise waiting for me just as I was about to hit the payment button. No mention of it before then. Nothing.
There is clearly a lot of anger and frustration here on PPH right now. Sellers are being hit by the new charges and buyers like me are walking away when they see the charges.But PPH aren't doing anything about it and so far everyone's complaints seem to have fallen on deaf ears.
Can I suggest one of the more active sellers here (maybe Sean or Mohammed?) collates some of the posts to bring everyone together? You guys will be stronger if you work together and it might actually result in PPH doing something instead of ignoring you.
There are various posts in the forum querying the new fees and expressing frustration at PPH's new policies, but they're all over the place -- maybe it would help to bring them all together by posting a few links like the ones below?
http://support.peopleperhour.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115005669627-Extortionate-buyer-transaction-fees
http://support.peopleperhour.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/203302697-Service-Fees
http://blog.peopleperhour.com/blogroll/important-announcement-regarding-service-fees/
http://support.peopleperhour.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115006963267-Buyer-Fees-Seller-Fees-ripoff-
http://support.peopleperhour.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115007001827-fees-charged-to-buyers
http://support.peopleperhour.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115008368308-Are-you-happy-to-pay-10-deposit-fees-
http://support.peopleperhour.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115006763507-New-service-fees
http://support.peopleperhour.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/115007114467-Ridiculous-Buyer-Fees-Please-Advise- -
I as a seller have the following concerns:
I have noticed how much my rating level has dropped and feel this is unjustified for the following reason:
I put in numerous bids and get quite a few positive responses to the extent the buyer says they will go with me and then they simply drop away. I believe that this is because they are paying extra charges which scares them off and which they may not have been aware of initially.
This creates the knock on effect of me not only not getting the business from the buyer but also leads to my rating being lowered for non selling (getting the job) activity.
I am getting more and more dissatisfied and disillusioned with PPH and I will have to make use of an equivalent type website as PPH instead. I do not want to stop with them as I do have a good history with PPH.
I also feel that my seller charges are too high as well and wonder if this is also down to my low activity level, which again I do not feel is my doing entirely,as mentioned previously.
I feel that us sellers need to support the buyers on this for mutual benefit.
Any buyers that agree with this, please log your complaint here so we can achieve a positive outcome.
Come on PPH, surely you can see how you will be losing business this way through greed.
Shelley
-
I couldn't agree more Shelly.
PPH charge me as a buyer 10% (5% for card payment & 5% service fee)
Following law change today the card fee will be removed (once someone at PPH actually wakes up )
However.....
I won't hold my breath on this making the service cheaper to use, I now expect PPH to charge the full 10% as a service fee.
Charging buyers this much is a joke and makes PPH a farce
Dave
-
Hi Dave,
I totally suspect you are right about PPH still expecting you buyers to pay up to10% either way, which is a rip off and I, like some other sellers led my clients or potential clients to believe there was no service charge as such and I know this is what PPH puts out there in the forefront. This is clearly misleading.
Sadly, I think that we will only see a positive outcome on this if, or should I say when it effects their profits.
Fingers crossed that PPH wakes up soon.
Kind regards
Shelley
-
Isn't it illegal now to add a fee for using a debit card?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/card-surcharge-ban-means-no-more-nasty-surprises-for-shoppers
Card surcharge ban means no more nasty surprises for shoppers
Hidden charges for paying with a debit or credit card will be banned from today (13 January 2018).
Economic Secretary to the Treasury, John Glen said:
It’s completely unfair for someone to be hit by a hidden fee just before they are about to make a purchase, so by scrapping these rip-off charges we are helping to give power back to the consumer.
The new rules will be enforced by Trading Standards who will have the power to take civil enforcement action against traders who breach the regulations. It will also entitle customers to receive a refund of any unlawful surcharge they have paid and enable them, if necessary, to take legal action to recover any such surcharge.
Please sign in to leave a comment.
Comments
27 comments