New system aimed primarily at matching newer sellers with buyers
So now it seems I have to wait two hours before I can bid for a job. This is extremely unfair. Not only do experienced creatives/designers have to compete with an unfair playing field, ie people offered to do a job for £10 when it is clearly worth £100, we are now not allowed to bid for jobs as soon as they appear on PPH. What kind of system is this?!
Awful. Unfair. Unprofessional. Discriminatory.
Regards
C. Howe
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@Paul - I know you included the 'perhaps' word, but I tend to disagree with you on this one. They have the full ability to monitor these threads, and have had for the past few months. Heck, they have even commented on these threads themselves, albeit briefly. So I cannot personally see it making one iota of difference.
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In the 14 months or so I have been active on PPH I have cause to contact them on 11 occasions, every time for a very valid reason such as the 2 hours window, being blocked from jobs, trouble with clients, selection for jobs I cannot do, their inability to accept my details again after they changed the payment system etc, and only for the last one did I receive any kind of response past the standard "we will contact you within 24 hours". There will be some out there who have had support when needed, unfortunately I haven't. I am still awaiting a response from 2 weeks ago as to why they have an endorsement system in place when i am getting endorsed by odd bods for things I don't even do like from the level 4 who has completed 3 jobs totalling £70 and wished me well as a new PPHer :/
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@Paul -
"They" can indeed be indifferent to this thread, but Customer Service have an obligation to respond and would soon get fed up if they had a mailbox filled with people having problems with this issue.
Whilst I see where you're coming from, I still hold different views. Customer service can do whatever they want. I don't see it as them having 'an obligation to respond' at all. It is however, what you would EXPECT from ANY company. I may be wrong on this one (I have no idea as to the size of pph, how many staff etc), but have you considered that the staff that have been and were/are monitoring these threads, could also be the customer service staff????
Don't forget that the 2hr delay issue was also majorly discussed either on this thread or another one, and they eventually DID respond to that.
So, I sit to potentially eat my words later on, but I still think that it makes no difference.
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Yes Geoff, and we, at least, explain what is wrong with Maven. They are just having a go without making it clear what is wrong with the site.
It is a much less ambitious approach than Maven (five people to start with - not asking a lot) and one that is more likely to succeed without a lot of resources for custom development, marketing etc. As far as I can see it is not a market place so I doubt it will scale up beyond a mid sized team.
I am not clear how it is going to get buyers - if I could drive customers anywhere I would not be using PPH in the first place. I might have been interested if PPH and local customers had not picked up.
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"They" can indeed be indifferent to this thread, but Customer Service have an obligation to respond and would soon get fed up if they had a mailbox filled with people having problems with this issue.
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@Paul
They deal with it by having scripted none answers. I had several issues as a newbie, I felt as if the person answering was a Stepford wife, on valium and and weak batteries. Issues like, "why are you with holding the money I've worked for and the client has paid? Nothing was stated about needing my passport details when I first signed up. Why are you only demanding it now you have my money in hand?" Not small stuff, but fundamental stuff. They refused to give me any information on the company, which is illegal in England, I found their London HO address with a little research. I understand, from this thread they are now in Greece, but they were certainly registered here then and subject to English law. So being obliged doesn't seen to be adequate motive for them to act.
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@Eric & Karen, Maybe I'm missing something, but it seems you've simply set up a company using freelance workers, calling them consultants. Nothing wrong with that, but your post and the website give opposing impressions of what the company is. I also wonder how it benefits a freelancer to drive their clients to your company, if they're attracting their own clients, what are you bringing to the table?
It's a completely different business model from Malvern and/or PPH. There is no comparison at all. You've set up a company and you're hoping others will do the (free) marketing for you if you let them keep the money they work for? Seriously what am I missing here?
From your website...
"No Outsourcing.
Our company is owned by the designers, writers and programmers. We never outsource your task." -
They are just having a go without making it clear what is wrong with the site.
I have given Eric some private feedback.
I couldn't are less what the technology is.
What I can say is that what I have seen of the business model and site claims, I don't wish to be part of it.
The suggestion that I am hypocritical is nonsense. I am really concerned about the validity of some of the statements on the site and it's business model. I am not criticising a technology stack.
I was quite taken aback by the site, that's for sure.
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They are just having a go without making it clear what is wrong with the site.
Am with Dee and Paul on this one. I don;t give a monkeys about what platform its on or whatever I just don't like the business model and it's based in the US when I have clearly stated already I steer clear of US sites.
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Thanks for the feedback.
Here is the idea.
The REASON freelancers/consultants use PPH or eLance or any other bid site, is because these sites get clients with work to be done. The alternative is for EACH freelancer to set-up their own site. In the ocean of websites, that is unlikely to result in any traffic.
So the idea is a middle ground. A group site, where the marketing time is divided between the group. Instead of giving 15% to a PPH or eLance, and the time to prospect and bid, each freelancer tries to promote one common site.
Think of this as trading commission for time.
Some people may post to blogs, linkedin groups or youtube. As each person promotes ONE site, the site gets more traffic. That converts prospecting time (read through job posts) and bidding time (responding to bids) into promotion time. BUT, the promotions live on the web to keep traffic coming to the site.
The idea is that five to ten people can likely drive more traffic to the site than one.
We used another site as a test and started to get traffic. That test was with only one niche of work. That proof of concept allowed a few freelancers to evaluate what they pay for bids on other sites, and the time to prospect/bid. They felt it is worth it to try to promote the site with paid promotions for awhile. But the goal is that if each freelancer does SOME promotion, the overall effort will be greater than what one person could do.
Anyway, I've gotten some other freelancers that what want in, so I'll be updating the site and adding their profiles.
All of you who think this is horrid, please be more specific. Just throwing hate is not useful. If you want to criticize, please be specific, otherwise I won't take you seriously.
This is a work in progress to be sure, but I really need to leave these bid sites, and tests so far show useful results. There is a firm in the Wash DC area that specialized in written content that uses a similar model and they are getting $80 per post vs the $25 that I've seen on the bid sites.
Website companies are getting $5,000 for a site while the average is $200 on the bid sites. I'm not saying that I have all the answers, but it seems that there are better markets and I want to tap into them. I really liked PPH once upon a time, but it seems to be swirling the bowl now.
When I calculate my time and cost for bids (on the sites that I pay a fee to each month for more bids). AND the low closing ratio on all sites, my time and money could be better spent. This is one way to try and do that. Maybe I an not clear enough yet in how I explain this.
The thing that got me interested in that is how I was able to get work on LinkedIn - without a special site. I also note that a lot of us have portfolios on PPH, yet I seem to get no traffic to my profile from that.
I also not the high abandonment rate on these sites. I tracked eLance and Guru (both of which I am a paid monthly member of). Looking back over a year, with lots of bid activity, there are a lot of jobs that are NEVER awarded. Not to me, nor anyone. That high abandonment rate is interesting. SO maybe these bid sites do NOT attract real jobs that are ever going to close.
Thanks Eric
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Question for those who appear to have ridden out the storm of these changes. Is PPH still worthy of it's name as a work market place?
Having had such a rude introduction to the site, I've stopped seeking work here, though I hung around to see if things improve. i.e. they changed the rules while I had work in had and basically held my money as hostage until I complied with the changes,
I'm subscribed to this thread so I've been keeping up with whats said. My biggest surprise is that people are still here!
Is it worth it as a platform?
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Dee, PPH still works for me, but I have more clients outside PPH than in it. Usually my clients are via friends and associates. The good projects on PPH are comparatively rare, but they do exist.
So far the skills thing hasn't impacted me, but I get ridiculous invitations for jobs that have a rubbish rate.
I've just about finished my only current PPH project and the client has been great and hasn't tried to skimp on the budget.
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@ Dee PPH no longer works for me in the way it should. I have built up a good client base granted but have had these people for a long time now, from when this was the best site around. I don't bother chasing jobs as I seem to be blocked from most of them and occasionally put in proposals if I have been invited rather than 'selected'. When my clients want work doing they just message me, and it is these clients I am taking to Maven with me so I can work with the same people, doing the same work, but have more money in my pocket. Please no questions on the last bit anyone as I have explained many times I DO NOT work privately due to being ripped off a few times and I simply won't risk it again and as I was ripped off by somebody I have worked with for 9 months I trust nobody now.....
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Thanks Paul and Deb. From looking at the available jobs and not only the lowering prices, but the increasing number of jobs that simply don't give any clue as to their budget, It all seems rather hopeless at this point. Plus PPH have destroyed any trust I may have had in them by using blackmail to get details I wasn't happy to give, nor had any reason to believe was required. The current restriction seem little different from being an employee, but without the benefits.
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@ Dee that. amongst all the other problems, is my biggest bug bear this no set budget crap. i hate being caught up in the whole cattle market bidding war when you know for a fact you are not being chosen on merit. I have been criticised on here for pushing Maven and I don't apologise for that. There are quite a few of us on here supporting them for A having a go at giving us an alternative and B actually taking our suggestions on board such as a monthly membership instead of commission and the fact that every job posted has to have a set price. I'm not expecting miracles, this site got off to a decidedly ropey start as did Fiverr but if nobody is prepared to give it a go what is everyone going to do? Stay on here constantly complaining about everything? I have signed up, paid my tenner and can't wait to post my projects on Friday. What happens then is anyone's guess but only by others giving it a go will they have a shot at succeeding, My clients are coming with me as they are as sick of this as the rest of us, so roll on tomorrow I say.
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Dee, PPH is getting me work, but it is too unsteady to rely on - I doubt more than about 100 or 200 people can make a full time living out of PPH. I think PPH is probably as good as freelancing sites get as the people who come to them at all are often looking for cheap and you will always get MUCH better rates through personal contacts. I would advise you never to work dirt cheap (its better to spend that time doing sales). What do you do?
I am pretty sure that the passport details etc. PPH require are what is required by UK law (the ridiculous anti-money laundering laws). I had been wondering how they got away without verifying customer identities, and it looks like I got my answer! The PPH system is badly setup in that they do not let you do any transactions without verifying your identity whereas the first few hundred pounds should not require it, other than that they are doing what the laws says they have to.
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@Deb, you do not want to deal with US sites, I seem to recall you are one of the people who does not like competing with Indians either. Perhaps you would like to close Heathrow Airport and the Channel Tunnel as well? Personally, although most of my clients are British I am happy to get work from anywhere (my highest paying client this year was Turkish) and through anyone.
Eric needs to get the legalities and practicalities of his site worked out, just as Maven need to sort out the technology. I rate his chances of success higher than Maven's because the business model is not a freelance marketplace. At least he has some idea how he is going to get customers and he is not asking for cash up front. Maven want cash upfront and have given no evidence that they are going to get customers.
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@ Graeme. I prefer clients in and around Europe purely because I don't do big project work I do short snappy projects with a quick turnaround and need to know I can message them when I need them and the time difference has proved problematic in the past as has the dollar exchange rate. I don't think anyone likes competing on no set budget jobs when you know you are getting selected on price. I have good months and bad months same as everyone else, last month was very good but I also paid in excess of £150 commission. So by paying a tenner and taking my clients with me that is money in my pocket. My clients will do the same there as on here, message me when they have work and we will take it from there. If everyone did that who has regular clients on here it has a chance to succeed. i have said time and time again I'm a writer and know nothing about technology and hosting etc but what I do know is that I would prefer a site that may be basic and a bit ropey but that I can make money from rather than one packed full of useless features, that bars me from applying for jobs that are my speciality and bombarding me with 30-40 emails a day selecting me for jobs so far out of my remit its a joke. Yes I do get that many as we have already sussed they are going off past work and being somebody who writes about everything I am being hammered with them.
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Well I am actually somewhat relieved to see that others are also pulling their hair out and swearing alot at their screens when they receive that message "your skills do not this job" What has annoyed me the most is that when I initially complained about not being able to submit proposals in my relevant field to customer services they failed to inform me that they are fully aware of this "error or glitch" within the new parameters and instead replied with nonsense. I hope PPH fails. Goodbye .
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