ANOTHER Fee Increase? Are you joking?
Sellers like myself are struggling with the race to the bottom mentality on this site already. At least 95%+ of my clients are below the 700 threshold -- I'll be paying 20% on everything.
Your fees are outrageous -- the 3.50 fee per invoice was bad enough, now it's even more. Did you even announce this increase? You will lose the high quality freelancers and the site will continue it's decline if you continue down this path.
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Well said Meri. For that price they would have to deliver a premium service, where they find vetted clients with a reasonable budget and a guaranteed amount of work.
We still have to deal with walk-ins who often want more than what an hourlie includes or have budgets so low that only third world freelancers could perform the task.
This change will make virtually everyone pay 20% and they tried to pass it off as doing us a favour?? The audacity.
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Don't forget, the buyer is also paying 10%+ in fees.
So, for each transaction, they are taking 30%+ in fees PLUS any payments for featured proposals or featured listings + then we have to pay fees to get the money out.
In some cases, you'd be approaching 35%+ of the transaction taken in fees. How is this reasonable? Then on top of that, they leech out money from dormant accounts and have various other tricks (virtual currency conversion) to take more money.
Not an ethical company. Not on the side of freelancers.
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I had a reply back yesterday after contacting the gurus on Monday. Amongst the usual stock reply, there was a paragraph telling me how many of my buyers had reached £100 so I could "easily" bring them to £500.
Aside from the fact these £100 buyers have all but disappeared (content is only king until other business expenses take over and the slow burn of good content is first to go), it speaks volumes - PPH thinks what we're doing is easy money.
So as well as feeling stressed, sad and worried and having been collectively insulted with these fees, I've now been personally insulted.
I was also told that the "most important thing to remember" is that PPH doesn't take these decisions lightly. They're made after a 'ton' of research.
No, PPH. The most important thing is paying my mortgage.
This is my full-time job. Becoming a top seller isn't easy. It takes skill, judgment, time, consideration and a passion to produce the best. If only the platform I was relying on was the same.
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This is absolutely shocking. The nature of what I do means that I'm rarely going to earn £500 from a client. Is my profession not valuable to PPH then? I've been on this site for years jumping through their ever-changing hoops to become a top seller. This is absolutely ridiculous and means an 'hourly' is just not worth it to me.
Whenever a client tries to go off the platform I refuse saying it really is worth it to me to pay the fees and make my way up the ladder. They're pricing me out now though.
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A stock response from PPH- does anyone remember the days of having support team members on PPH like Suresh and Dimitri? Where you would actually get a human responding to you? The level of English is frankly insulting. This is so important, so very important- this is our livelihoods, our ability to pay mortgages and rent and feed our children.
Hello Meri,
My name is Fortune and I am with the Customer Support team. I will be taking over the case from now and I will do my best in order for us to resolve it.
I understand your issue and I am sorry for any inconvenience caused by it and I know that you are upset. I would be too if I were you but please let me explain. I would kindly like to inform you that a new Service fee scheme is now applied to all of our Sellers' accounts which has started from 1st of July. A notification email was sent by our Team a month ago to all of our Sellers to inform them about the new fee scheme and to also notify that our Terms&Conditions section 8.2 have also been updated according to it. If you review our T&C's you will see that;Please note, Seller's service fees will be updated on 1st July 2018, in accordance with the communication sent to all Sellers on 4th June 2018. The following set up will be implemented for all Sellers:
Over £5000 | $7000 | €6000 lifetime billing per Buyer: 3.5% Service Fee
Between £500 | $700 | €600 and £5000 | $7000 | €6000 lifetime billing per Buyer: 7.5% Service Fee
Below £500 | $700 | €600 lifetime billing per Buyer: 20% Service Fee
I am really sorry if you missed that notification but I would also advise you to check out your Spam or Junk folders to find the email sent! Unfortunately, the new fee scheme cannot be changed and it is based on the lifetime billings you have with a specific Buyer. Your lifetime billings are the total invoices paid between you and a Buyer including Seller service fees. Lifetime billings do not include any fees paid by Buyers to PPH.
The new fee structure will be based on lifetime billings with each of your Buyers. We encourage you to seek repeat business with your clients and/or to consider modifying the costs you currently propose for new business. We are committed to attracting and helping you connect with Buyers and grow your business.
I hope for your understanding. If you have anymore questions please feel free to respond at anytime.
Have a nice day.
Fortune
PPH Customer Support -
I discovered yesterday, and on a purely casual way, that I was paying 20% fee instead of 3.5%. I didn't get any notification on my e-mail, I didn't see anything posted on the top of the page. They just whispered to the wind one month ago and that was supposed to be enough. I lost a lot of money this week because of this. But if Xenos says something in his Facebook page I have to see a notification above the page for two months. That is clearly more relevant than this. That, I DO need to know about.
I have been working exclusively on PPH for 6 years, taking advantage of the 3.5% fidelity program. Most of the people that use PPH are people like us: entrepreneurs, small-medium companies, people who cannot afford to spend a lot and are very careful with their money. I have worked with a few clients from the beginning, and I don't have a single client that surpasses €6000. In the illustration and graphic design area it is very rare to find these type of clients. So even if all I work with are repeated clients, my fees just doubled without a single benefit for me.
According to PPH, this appears to be my fault because I am not "encouraging" my clients to spend more on my services. Maybe I should go to their houses on a Friday night to convince them over beers to go ahead with that new app that they have been thinking about for the last six years? Or that their newly created company needs to spend another 3000 in illustrations so I don't get ripped off on fees? That makes a lot of sense! As far as I know, PPH is doing less than nothing to promote services, all they have is a couple of spam mails and the same Facebook ad that has been running since 3 years ago. The clients complain constantly and there seems to be no one around to help them.
I would like to be very worried about the new clients that I am bringing thanks to PPH but let's be honest: there are no new clients. I bid every week and I never land anything anymore. When I check why, the job always went to a person that charges less than half of what I was bidding. I have no problem with that, obviously, but the problem is that there are no "€€€" jobs anymore and I am not going back to year one to working triple to earn what I am earning now. PPH is mainly attracting low budget jobs and shady customers, and I haven't been able to sell one hourlie in I don't know how many months, so they have become utterly useless, specially since they eliminated the carefully curated covers I had designed for them to be attractive and replaced them with the avatar image, rendering the hourlies illegible and indistinguishable for a client. And also, below 20 rows of sponsored hourlies, which I won't ever pay because I believe that this is a very obvious rip-off.
I will obviously transfer this new fee to the clients. They will complaint, some of them will leave the platform as they have been doing for a couple of years, specially since the 10% was added on their side. I will not be bringing new clients to the platform as I have been doing so far, because I am now aware that this Zero Fees feature will disappear eventually, without any warning. New clients will get the 30% increase on their cost (which I already added to my hourlies by the way, not sure why because they are useless but just in case), so I will win even less bids and sell no hourlies at all. Which means that I have to open up from working exclusively with PPH to other platforms because even if I have a solid client base, clients come and go as they please, they move away, they divorce, they get hired, go broke, and there is no warranty that they will be around forever so I need to be ready with a fresh client base all the time.We have to understand that since PPH has refused to keep up with their own business, we eventually became their clients. The Sellers are not PPH's clients, the Buyers are. A lot of disgruntled sellers have left the platform over the last couple of years, so the money to make up from this gap is coming from our pockets. Extra bids, crazy fees, fees over fees, featuring costs, all of this is the business model of someone that has nothing else to offer, that is on the way out and that is trying to grab as much as they can before falling off the grid. It is a shame because I really liked working here. I am already taking measures to avoid my future self a drama. For example, I removed my PPH widget from my website: I don't see the point of that anymore.
The copy-paste statement from PPH on this forum is so cheeky that I won't even mention it. I find it offensive.
I really hope that this is one of those times where they miscalculated their reach and eventually, after we freelancers loose a lot of money and clients, retrace their steps and fix their mistake. Let's see if this time the mess their made can be salvaged.
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FFS, I know this stopped being funny a long time ago, but it gets worse.
I hadn't even spotted that the hourlies no longer have a bespoke image marketing them (unless as it now appears, it is featured, in which case it misleadingly now shows on the front of the buyers dashboard under a title labelled as 'TOP SALES HOURLIES' which in itself is a lie and completely untrue.
I did say it gets worse...
More changes on the site, in that there is now a buyers dashboard and a sellers dashboard, gone is the drop down menu from the top, but even more worringly for some, there is no search for hourlies anymore!!!!!
I shake my head in disbelief.
Natalie, if you are indeed still reading all of these comments, when will PPH wake up and smell the coffee?
There isn't a single comment of support. Not one person saying, 'I can work with this', not a single member of the so called people with whom you researched that were in favour of all of this.
I've worked in government departments that have recognised quicker than this that they messed up and had to make changes and do a 180.
In the last 24 hours, there was your (Natalie) assurance that this feedback was being listened to, and then a message from 'Fortune' that "the new fee scheme cannot be changed".
Hardly a joined up response.
If revenue drops by 50% in the month of July will PPH take notice and listen?
This isn't so much a case of shooting yourself in the foot, especially by removing the hourlie search function, but moreso sitting on top of a ton of high explosive whilst smoking a cigarette, taking a shower in petrol and then wondering why you just transformed into red mist.
You've just hit the self destruct button and it stopped being funny a long time ago.
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My profile views are up 24%. I can't think why. There is a spike of 8 views on 30th June despite the fact I haven't submitted a proposal for nearly a month. I'm not getting many views so the percentage fluctuates wildly. I'm not getting many views because I don't bid on anything any more. I don't submit bids because there are no projects for me. PPH have driven away all my potential customers.
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Totaly agree with you Meri
Totaly agree and share your worry Hannah
Meri you are right: The options seem to be.
1) 'not be so bothered about doing a good job'
2) 'Put less hours in for each job carried out'
3) 'Deliver a 'sub standard job
4) Join other freelancer sites so this is no longer a sole income/job site
5) Agree when someone says 'take payment elsewhere'
Non of these should even be thought of as good options !!
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And here is the proof Paul::
5 Jul 2018 at 11:00:06PPH Service Fee for Invoice XXXXXX related to Job produce your 3 YR Business Plan with full Finances & Marketing (D...-£90.005 Jul 2018 at 11:00:05Invoice XXXXXX paid by the Buyer for Job produce your 3 yr Business Plan with full finances and marketing£375.00 -
Hourlie search is still there , but that face thumbnail idea is best thing I've ever seen, maybe PPH can add a dating feature -and it should be paid-
I guess I'm going to start, posting Hourlies like Fiverr as there is nothing that prohibits posting services like :
"Will sing SpongeBob square-pants song for you" £5
"Will be your best friend for 1 day" £50
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They have tucked away the buy hourlies button. They seem to be pushing buyers into listing jobs.
This hurts the long-term freelancers who have built highly successful hourlies with hundreds of positive ratings. Most buyers won't even know hourlies exist -- they will simply click "Post Job".
When they post that job, they will be inundated with low quality freelancers from third world countries. Good luck getting noticed unless you buy a featured proposal (which is yet another money earner for PPH and perhaps the ONLY reason for this change).
The platform is being ruined. It feels like they have betrayed long term freelancers on the site in favour of a quick buck. I am so stressed right now. PPH is no longer a good source of work, it is turning into a scam.
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Paul you are right. And this is deeply worrying as all my work comes from hourlie sales. I don't even think a buyer is provided with feedback from hourlie sales if they just visit a profile-could be wrong-but as none of my work is proposal based it will look like I'm inactive. Today has just been the worst. Not enjoying work and so worried. The message I got from the support has made me so angry. With the amount we are now paying I would at least expect a personalised reply addressing my concerns and a better standard of English! I haven't sold an hourlie in well over a week. I normally sell one every 1-2 days. Still no response from PPH.
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I've sold one hourly in the week, profile views down -45%.
It is now impossible for me to rely on People Per Hour as a stable source of income.
There are so many problems with the platform now:
- Influx of low skill third world freelancers
- Move away from hourlies (hurting established sellers) and to a "Post Job" system where those low skill third world freelancers are cluttering up the system. You see jobs posted with 10 or 20 third world freelancers who clearly don't have the skills the buyer is after.
- More than 30% fees per sale (buyer + seller fees) AND additional fees for featured hourlies, proposals, or jobs (PeoplePerHour squeezing freelancers to profit more off our hard work).
- An hourly search that is still very broken. When searching for blog post or writing, I see freelancers with lower cert, less sales, and a lower rating beating me in the rankings.
It's getting worse every day. Who the hell is making these decisions? They want the site to be a race to the bottom. They are trying to emulate Fiverr?
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After more than two years here on the PPH platform, full time and working with about 150 buyers, I only have one client over the £5,000 threshold and just another one over £500 (but with no prospects to ever reach the £5,000 limit). So, except for this 2 clients, I'll be forced to pay the new 20% service fee, which is basically an outrageous 3 times increase on the monthly average fees I was paying until now.
What kind of service or product cost would, basically overnight, just go up 3 times?
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I'm another who is upset, cross, infuriated... you name it...
I was on the original fee structure so this change is crippling. Not that it actually matters because I'm not getting any work because it's virtually dried up. I've brought tens of thousands of pounds through PPH yet this is what we get.
It's appalling, I'm shocked.
I also didn't get an email notification.
Finally, I think it is futile contacting customer support. The replies are insulting and patronising. They never actually address your issue.
They need to 180 on this and invest in marketing and getting the word back out. Either that or PPH is dead.
This new system means there is no reward for the reputations we've built or our LOYALTY over the years.
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The fee increase is ridiculous but what has happened to all the traffic on PPH?
Its because they have changed the algorithm so all the searches are now showing poor sellers who are duplicating hourlies.
PPH worked best when the top sellers were on the main page and buyers were getting good quality services. They are burnt by poor sellers and then don't use the site again.
Top sellers have worked up the ranks and new sellers have to come on and prove themselves, thats how it works with other sites such as Amazon and Ebay.
My view is down by -80%, it is unsustainable now with the price increase.
PPH have continually increased the fees and are squeezing us
- Proposal credits use to be £32.99 for 100, now its £19.99 for 50.
- Fees have increased for buyers and sellers, 10% and 20% notably.
- PPH hourlie features has increased, and now pay to feature in emails.
- Refunds now PPH take 10%, this use to be free, then it was £5.
- Feature your profile now minimum bids.
For what I can see they are just trying to quickly drain money from the platform but I don't understand why.
2 years ago it was really booming and since they have increased all these fees the traffic and sales have completely died a death.
After nearly 7 years on the site I really can see the platform going under.Nobody wants that and we all want the same things for more traffic and more sales, so I don't understand why PPH don't listen to the freelancers who have used the site for years.
PPH need to do some serious uturns here and listen to the community, it is not too late to bring this back and make changes but the increase in fees has to go and the hourlie algorithm sorted out quickly - it's not working.
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It's not just about hourlies. My work doesn't really fall into something that can be given a fixed price and specification, so I can't use hourlies. All my work comes through submitting bids on projects that have been posted.
Where have all the projects gone? There are no projects being posted for my type of work. Has the advertising been cut? Has the advertising been changed so that it does not cover the same disciplines as before? Has the reputation of PPH sunk so low that buyers don't want to post their work here? I don't know the reasons, I only see that there is almost no work here now.
When I look for work here my priority are the recommended jobs and invites, many of which or completely unrelated to anything I say I do or have done. Then I glance through each page of all the projects, unfiltered, until I get to one I recognise from the last time I looked. When I do this in the morning, I scroll back through fewer pages to get back to the previous day. The list of jobs is definitely getting smaller.
The quality of the jobs has also been getting steadily worse. On the odd occasion I find a suitable job, by type, it now has very low budget set by the buyer. The jobs where the freelancer can set a price are very rare indeed now.
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